Incidence of Loss of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

S

selena15

#1
Hi Covers
i have a question
I wonder if the compagnie establish a strategie for
- identifying the employee which have an incidence on QMS?
- try to optimize their contribution within the org?
- Have a long term strategy about how to keep them, ensure to have a replacement in case of departure?

I've asked someone about the incidence of the departure of one a relevant employee from the org. he had replied that for sure; he will miss it, that the most thing that would be missed is his knowledge and that maybe it will make longer to resolve the issue than him but that the org can survive!
what is your feedback on that ?
thanks in advance
Sel
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: incidence of lost of competency

Hi Selena,

This is a biggish Human Resources question that involves 5.4.2 (QMS planning) and 6.1 (Provision of resources). The organization should somehow lay out a set of critical tasks, identify the competencies to do them, and ID people who have those competencies or make a plan for how to establish them. This is not something that can be done on a piece of scratch paper; it is important to put it together using thought and hopefully a cross fucntional team that can help ensure the technical tasks and aspects are properly addressed.
 
A

Al Dyer

#3
Re: Incidence of Lost of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

Selena,

The technical knowledge is important and can be measured by Human Resources through training and testing. The institutional knowledge held by the relevant employee is the item that can not be quantified. The person you talked to is correct, the person will be hard to replace in the short term. The knowledge will come but will never be the same as the original employee. Different? Yes... Better? Maybe... Measurable? Never...

Al...
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: incidence of lost of competency

Hi Selena,

This is a biggish Human Resources question that involves 5.4.2 (QMS planning) and 6.1 (Provision of resources). The organization should somehow lay out a set of critical tasks, identify the competencies to do them, and ID people who have those competencies or make a plan for how to establish them. This is not something that can be done on a piece of scratch paper; it is important to put it together using thought and hopefully a cross fucntional team that can help ensure the technical tasks and aspects are properly addressed.
This is an interesting topic. In the 1960s, computer programmers were known to write code in a way that contributed to their own job security. It was a relatively simple matter to make algorithms and logic flow almost impossible to decipher by anyone other than the original programmer. There were many instances of programs that needed a little maintenance having to be completely rewritten (or nearly so) when a programmer left the company (which was also common).

As programs and tasks became more complex it became clear that a different approach was necessary, and Wikipedia reference-linkStructured programming was born. The idea was to (a) minimize or eliminate GOTO statements (code that caused the logic flow to be discontinuous) and (b) build programs in modules written by teams rather than individuals. There were also strict requirements for documenting programs (including logic flowcharts) and naming of variables. Structured programming eventually morphed into Wikipedia reference-linkObject-oriented programming.

The point of this is that we should be building our manufacturing and quality systems in similar fashion so as to avoid too much knowledge residing in the brains of individuals. This is where an often-overlooked value of process documentation becomes important. Even if written procedures and work instructions are rarely referenced by operators, they should represent a record of process design. As such, they should tell not only that process operations should be performed in a certain order, but why they should be performed that way.

In an earlier post, Al Dyer observed that there is experiential knowledge that can't be objectively measured, and he's right. The idea should be to mitigate against that inability by sharing knowledge as much as possible.
 
R

ralphsulser

#5
Re: Incidence of Lost of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

The other issue ongoing recently and continuing now, is the loss of skill, knowledge, and customer continuity due to plant closures where the business is split up among other plants, mergers, downsizing, etc.
I know of some people in the plants absorbing this business who have made some horrific judgment calls either by inadvertent or ego driven decisions.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
Re: Incidence of Lost of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

The other issue ongoing recently and continuing now, is the loss of skill, knowledge, and customer continuity due to plant closures where the business is split up among other plants, mergers, downsizing, etc.
I know of some people in the plants absorbing this business who have made some horrific judgment calls either by inadvertent or ego driven decisions.
It's not just judgment calls. I know of a large, multinational company that has a division in Minnesota that was supplied by a sister plant nearby. Over the years, production changes were made that in many instances didn't result in changes to the relevant drawings--the supplier knew what to do, and the receiving plant knew what to expect.

A few years ago a decision was made to close the supplying plant and outsource all of the work. The result was new suppliers making parts that conformed to the drawings and the parts not working in production. Another instance of "The operation was a success, but the patient died."
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: incidence of lost of competency

The point of this is that we should be building our manufacturing and quality systems in similar fashion so as to avoid too much knowledge residing in the brains of individuals. This is where an often-overlooked value of process documentation becomes important. Even if written procedures and work instructions are rarely referenced by operators, they should represent a record of process design. As such, they should tell not only that process operations should be performed in a certain order, but why they should be performed that way.

In an earlier post, Al Dyer observed that there is experiential knowledge that can't be objectively measured, and he's right. The idea should be to mitigate against that inability by sharing knowledge as much as possible.
This is exactly correct, and the quality systems focus a great deal on training and verification of the effectiveness of training, but it is the input - the information collection - that is equally critical. As is the case with the programming examples, there are many other skill-based areas that have had their artisanship protected by the skill owner as a protection of their job security. They may provide some information on how to do something - but may hold back critical information. There needs to be a verification that the information collection (input) is adequate to train the next person (output) - and to verify that prior to the skill owner leaving (when it is too late).
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Re: Incidence of Lost of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

I know this only addresses part of the issue, but what I have used in the past to collect some of this data I have called a 'versatility chart', which records skill levels of various individuals and highlites departments that either need cross training or have an excess accumulation of skill level that should be broadened in others. I have also used it as a training record. Some type of matrix like this is a good starting point for collecting the data.
 

Attachments

S

selena15

#9
Incidence of Lost of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

Hi Covers
first of all thanks for replies

here is my quote :)

Indeed Jennifer, from my point of you, it is an item to add while calculating the cost of poor quality. it was basically my question to this person, because according our activities and the critical area, and the people who is acting on this area and resolve the lack of issue; it make sense to ID them, but usually since we have them currently, we are so happy, go on through daily working and consider them as any other one.
I’ve asked one consultant in my country about this and he told me that usually org are more focusing on how to decrease costs and for most of them it means to reduce HR. the first person that I’ve asked has reply to my query of who he would try to keep his relevant employees; he replied to keep them feared that he can fire, is this sensible strategy, the relevant person won’t be fear; they are enough smart to know there value, to indeed benefit from their current experience to sell better themselves outside.


Al ; during my survey, one of my colleague has said one thing very important, let’s get as sample one plant with some specific engine which has just start ; 5 years later maybe the machines will start their lifecycle and to be less performing, the point is : when we will feel deeply the incidence of one relevant departure, obviously not during the first year of machines running but later when it start to be less performing, and for sure the benefit from competency is more effective during these period when the design change is maybe needed and root cause of defect sometime is hard to be found.
As instance, we had on plant one guy believe me, he’s master on his area; he’s designing for us lot of change and are able to find quickly lot of obscure issue. All other staff recognize that even they are able to solve the issue; they will take time to find out how while he will not hesitate. The knowledge for sure can’t be measurable and it isn’t my attention; I spent my time to say to my boss that even I write lot of procedure, it can’t be complete because the missing part will be my personal contribution and how I consider thing and try to solve them.

But Al if the knowledge aren’t measurable and happily it is like this otherwise it will be purely exploiting people. Crr but the idea is to evaluate the cost of the lost, estimation of lost of the competence. How The lost can be measured by the cost of the time taken to solve issue, the cost of recruiting another person and how much he would replace the former one and how can we readapt our org according the new competency rate. It can be considered from the econometric view. As hogheavenfarm has suggested or other stuff, thanks to you


Jim , I’m not sure that i got you well, but it the point is to document and make the operation as procedure and instruction and think that we are safe because we have to follow the structure; I don’t know how much we can count on that; several time; my colleague try to find out some instruction on our manual and procedure and believe we have huge library but they complain sometime that it is addressed to people which have already lot of years of experiences behind them and it is just generic while some of them have just finished their diploma or are coming from another kind of activities . as instance, we don’t have lot of plant as our in my country so to find some specific competency is pretty hard



Amen to both of you Ralph and Jim, in my former company; it was merging and the org board has paid lot of people, clause to their retreat, lot of money, huge compensation to push them to leave while these people was mastered in their process, and most of them in the most critical process; production. Later they have hired a young stuff which had have just their diploma since they got it from abroad!

That is correct Bobdoering,
One of the cause that the person has propose to me is that people refuse to share information because this is their insurance to keep their job and have even consideration in their area ; but sometimes it is allowed by the org itself ; one colleague here we are long time has complain to me that himself and others colleagues was so interested to get training and work with one program, the org has send them to the training but most of the training if the org aren’t aware of this point and require it from the school of training person, will be informative and not formative and later when they come back to work and won’t to benefit from the experience of one other colleague,

he refused arguing that he can’t work while lot of people are around him (because people want learn, so they stick to him while he won’t start that program) guess what; the boss allow him that because; for that moment, he was more interested by the task to be done and forgot later to re-ask these person to make one training cession to his colleague

Selena
 
A

AndreyPodenkov

#10
Re: Incidence of Lost of Competency - Departure of a Knowledgable Employee

I know this only addresses part of the issue, but what I have used in the past to collect some of this data I have called a 'versatility chart', which records skill levels of various individuals and highlites departments that either need cross training or have an excess accumulation of skill level that should be broadened in others. I have also used it as a training record. Some type of matrix like this is a good starting point for collecting the data.
Excellent 'versatility chart'. Is over what to think. Will allow not only carry out interchangeability of the personnel but also to develop criteria for material stimulation.:thanx:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T Analysis of Sample Data Sets - Incidence of Canine Rabies Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 2
K Customer Satisfaction - Would you advise to investigate the trend or the incidence? Customer Complaints 9
E Received a Major finding during IATF Surveillance audit for loss of BIQS Level 3 (more than 6 SPPS in 6 months)...how should we address SYSTEMIC CA? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
M Informational FDA discussion paper – Consideration of Benefit-Risk Approaches for Weight-Loss Devices Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Loss of a Quality Record - FDA Inspection Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 4
H 8.4.2.4.1 Supplier Audit - Supplier with IATF certified loss IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
BradM Sympathy to Wes Bucey and his family, loss of his wife Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 20
Q Loss of Personnel - Root Cause Analysis ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
E Risk Analysis - Events which may cause to Data Loss ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 12
M Taguchi Loss Function Problem Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
RoxaneB Fighting Corporate Memory Loss Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 7
T Calibration Laboratory Temperature/Humidity goes out of tolerance due to Power Loss General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
V Monitoring Specific Reasons and Categories of Yield Loss of Online Rejects ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
E US FDA Blood Loss Policy - Dislodged Hemodialysis Needle Other US Medical Device Regulations 3
Randy Loss of gravitational attraction (Weight loss for you PhD's) Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 29
C Assembly Line Organization 17% Startup Loss - SMED (LCD TVs) Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 3
Marc Taguchi Loss Function example Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 4
G Implementing Taguchi Loss Function in COQ - A Curious Case Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 1
M "Pet Project" Improvements - At a loss Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 23
Chennaiite What is the loss? A guy buys a chocolate from a shop worth 80 YEN Brain Teasers and Puzzles 20
bobdoering Toyota forecasts $8.6B loss, says 1 million sales will vanish World News 2
chris1price Loss of CE Mark - MHRA decided that they are not Medical Devices EU Medical Device Regulations 10
Jim Wynne GM Posts $15.5 Billion Second-Quarter Loss World News 0
K Cost Estimation of Sand Casting Process including the Pig Loss in estimation Manufacturing and Related Processes 7
H Rolled Throughput Yield (RTY) Loss - Can you measure in PPM? Six Sigma 3
Marc Ford posts its worst loss in history World News 8
Marc Ford Reports Loss of $5.8 Billion in 3rd Quarter World News 0
Marc Ford Has $1.19 Bln 1st-Qtr Loss on Job-Cutting Costs World News 15
Marc GM tried to mask its billion-dollar third-quarter loss with bright news World News 15
Marc The Loss of Manufacturing Jobs since 1999 - Will Unions make a Come Back in the US? Philosophy, Gurus, Innovation and Evolution 24
Marc GM plunges into $1bn quarterly loss World News 28
M ASTM Method for Light Loss Testing - Enclosures for the CCTV industry Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 4
M Monetary Loss due to NonConformances - Who is liable? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 11
D Loss Prevention in ISO 9001:2000 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
M How far does one go to protect quality and other records from "loss" Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 1
Geoff Cotton Taguchi quality loss function - How do I establish the 'Consumer Loss' element? Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 6
Marc Zero Defects & Taguchi Loss Function - ISO 9000 and the Zero Defects Philosophy Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 32
V Internal Auditor Competency KPI IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
B Internal Auditor Competency - Product Auditors Internal Auditing 9
I IATF Lab Scope Testing Qualification and Competency Documentation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B Internal and external auditor competency to CSR's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
M IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency Internal Auditing 7
J ISO 17025 Documented Procedure for 6.2.5 - Determining competency ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
D QA Inspector testing - Test for competency Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 1
S API Spec Q1 - How to define Management Representative competency for QMS Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 12
K Changing from Procedure based to Process based Competency Evaluations General Auditing Discussions 5
J ISO 9001 2015 - 7.2 Competency ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
A Documentation of Competency, Awareness IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J ISO 9001 Competency - Forklift License and Internal Auditors ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
C AS9100 Cl. 7.2 Competency for contract workers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom