Including competitors' information in a documentation system

Randy

Super Moderator
#11
Scott, I'll retract my rudeness and provide some other comments.

If you guys came by them legally, and if you guys use them legally, and if they must be used to support your activities within your MS, then they would be nothing more than documents of external origion and subject to control requirements.
 
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ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#12
Scott, I'll retract my rudeness and provide some other comments.

If you guys came by them legally, and if you guys use them legally, and if they must be used to support your activities within your MS, then they would be nothing more than documents of external origion and subject to control requirements.
Rudeness? From you? Never, Randy.

There was nothing overtly illegal about the obtaining of the documents.
Some came from customers saying "can you make a part that will replace this", some came from employees that used to work for competetors, etc. Pretty normal channels.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#13
Actually, in interesting question. My response would be "it depends".

Competitors information could range from a simple brochure, to top secret stuff obtained legally, to stuff that you probably should not have.

I have a friend who is a chemist. He has companies hand him a certain plastic, and he tells them what the composition is. Don't ask; don't tell. Please... are we suggesting this doesn't go on all the time??

And after paying handsomely for this information, is it smart for the company to not control that information?

Too, many companies test competitor products against their own. They then make statements regarding how they compare. I would again think it smart business to control the samples/information relating to those tests.

Yes, I think there are instances where competitors information should be controlled.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#14
...There was nothing overtly illegal about the obtaining of the documents.

Some came from customers saying "can you make a part that will replace this", some came from employees that used to work for competetors, etc. Pretty normal channels.
Those types generally would be feeder information for your own documents, and would not end up being controlled docs in your own system.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#15
What are your thoughts on controlling competitors' documents?

Say you get your hands on some drawings or test standards or the like...

I say "No". They are not our documents. Even if they are controlled as third party documents they do not belong in the document system. Particularly if they have a legal disclaimer about unauthorized distribution, etc.

As an auditor what would you do if you spotted this?
Is there a need for users of the documents to know that they're using the current version/edition?
When new editions are available, is it important to replace the old ones, and remove the old ones from points of use?
Do you have a need to be able to reference a master list or other such bibliography in order to find out about the status of the documents (location, current version, etc.)?

All are rhetorical questions; you should control that for which a good reason for control exists.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#16
Rudeness? From you? Never, Randy.

There was nothing overtly illegal about the obtaining of the documents.
Some came from customers saying "can you make a part that will replace this", some came from employees that used to work for competetors, etc. Pretty normal channels.
You've supplied the answer....they are used to help achieve product conformity and customer satisfaction.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
You've supplied the answer....they are used to help achieve product conformity and customer satisfaction.

I'm not buying that entirely...
If they came from the customer they might be used in the design process just as much as a hand sketch might, but not referenced anywhere after that point. When we get back to the customer we get back with our own drawing because we don't copy the competitors part.

In most cases the customer says we need a part that does this and fits here, usually without a competing part drawing or drawing. Handing us an existing drawing is simply a means of shortening that communication process.

We sell our parts. We don't put in our literature that our part X is a drop in replacement or a generic for competitor part Y.
 
M

madannc

#18
Too, many companies test competitor products against their own. They then make statements regarding how they compare. I would again think it smart business to control the samples/information relating to those tests.

Yes, I think there are instances where competitors information should be controlled.
I agree they should be controlled but not sure if the QS is the right place, you my well want to keep the information/testing results but purely for defence reasons if you end up in a litigation (not sure if that is right word) battle. In other words controlled for legal reasons by the legal department/company lawyer, not for quality. The quality side of this would be in the verification and validation, that demonstrate your product performed to set requirements.

:2cents:
 
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