Initial capability studies on similar parts

Kostas M

Involved In Discussions
Good morning everyone,

I have a question regarding the initial capability studies. Can you use capability studies for PPAP from similar parts that were performed within a year?
According to the AIAG book, it states only that the initial process study may be replaced by longer tern historical data from same or similar processes. The issue is that I do not have historical data since the initial capability studies that I would like to use were performed two months ago and do not have data.

Thanks
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Leader
Super Moderator
Good day @Kostas M ;
The short answer is "no".
1- It is unlikely your customer would accept.
2- Your organization (and your customer) will have no evidence that the specific characteristics of the product in question, are indeed manufactured statistically capable.
3- Why would your organization want to "skip" verifying and gathering/possessing the evidence that the product characteristics are indeed statistically sound?
4- Without knowing what the specific process/manufacturing is, I can only assume there are tools/molds/aspects of the manufacturing process that are unique to the product in question?


Be selfish. Verify statistical capability of the features for YOUR organization in order to protect all involved.

Hope this helps.

Be well.
 

Kostas M

Involved In Discussions
Hello John,

Thank you for your response.

The capability process for just one part can take about one week and we need to make 5 different parts. All the parts have the same exactly critical characteristics as the initial part that we performed the studies a couple months ago. The only difference is the stock size. Tooling and machine are going to be the same as the first part. The only change would be the different collets for feeding the bar into the machine.

If our customer accepts it that will save us about 5 weeks on timing and labor.

Kostas
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Leader
Super Moderator
Understood @Kostas M ;
It sounds like a discussion with the customer may be in order. If they are ok with it,(I would certainly want an e-mail or other evidence, such as an approved capability study listing all applicable part numbers), then congratulations !

Be well.
 

Kostas M

Involved In Discussions
Thank you John.
I think the AIAG could somehow cover that with this statement " the initial process study may be replaced by longer tern historical data from same or similar processes" but I was looking if there is anything else in place.

Thanks again
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Leader
Super Moderator
I was looking if there is anything else in place.

Understood, but you can understand that since "AIAG" [i assume in actuality we are referring to IATF 16949 and the IATF group ?] , is made up of the automotive OEM,s and, therefore, are (rightly so) being quite selfish in their written requirements to ensure the continued repeat problems they encountered are mitigated to the extent possible.

I understand your organization's position, but still council that in most cases no parts or the inputs that produce them are ever "same", so my recommendation for individual studies and PPAP by part number still remains.(this opens a dialogue on a topic that I coined as "Control Resolution".. you can likely find my posts on that topic here and/or LinkedIn)

Best of luck regardless of the path chosen.

Be well.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Understood, but you can understand that since "AIAG" [i assume in actuality we are referring to IATF 16949 and the IATF group ?] , is made up of the automotive OEM,s and, therefore, are (rightly so) being quite selfish in their written requirements to ensure the continued repeat problems they encountered are mitigated to the extent possible.

I understand your organization's position, but still council that in most cases no parts or the inputs that produce them are ever "same", so my recommendation for individual studies and PPAP by part number still remains.(this opens a dialogue on a topic that I coined as "Control Resolution".. you can likely find my posts on that topic here and/or LinkedIn)

Best of luck regardless of the path chosen.

Be well.
The OP is quoting from the AIAG PPAP manual, which is well known for being vague on many points. This is definitely an instance where a conversation with the customer is in order. BTW, I think you meant "counsel."
 
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