Definition Inputs vs. Resources in the context of a Process - Differences

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
Re: What is the difference 'inputs' and 'resources' in the context of a process?

:confused: Even in the same process, it's getting difficult for me to differentiate the two. I take the example of limestone crushing process. Limestone is a natural resource and once it's fed to crusher as input (uncrushed LS), the output is still a natural resource (crushed LS) but unlike water in a power boiler, here limestone is definitely an input.

As Freaser said is one of the posts, it's the definition of process (9001) that causes confusion.

Why I'm interested to know is because (i) most Turtles have these things separately defined and (ii) when one needs to improve the process efficiency (in terms of use of resources), one must have a clear picture of an input and a resource.
Thanks.
Yes, the LS in this case is an input. But is the whole purpose about crushing the LS ?
If so, then input meets the definition, and the definition causes no confusion. Can you help me more to understand your confusion ...
 
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samsung

#12
Re: What is the difference 'inputs' and 'resources' in the context of a process?

Yes, the LS in this case is an input. But is the whole purpose about crushing the LS ?
If so, then input meets the definition, and the definition causes no confusion. Can you help me more to understand your confusion ...
Again I would go to the example of water (natural resource) used in a boiler for power generation. It's entirely used up in the process, that's why we don't call it an 'input' but in my previous example of Limestone (again a natural resource), since it isn't used up, it's called as 'input'.

This is the confusion. Are resources not inputs?
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
Re: What is the difference between 'inputs' and 'resources' in the context of a proce

I wish that more people would question this! The definition you quote is from ISO9001. Yet a number of other definitions of a “process” found on the Internet suggest that the definition is flawed:
- “A series of actions, changes, or functions bringing about a result”
- “A series of inter-related activities that result in an outcome”
- “A generic method of doing something, involving steps or operations which are usually ordered and/or interdependent”
- “A collection of interrelated tasks, which solve a particular issue”
- “A series of events that produce change or development”.

None mentions a "transformation", and all either mention or at least imply i) a trigger event and ii) an objective. And "resources" aren't mentioned either - perhaps they are not essential as part of the definition, but rather a (helpful) note of explanation.

If you apply the ISO9001 definition, then every input must be changed into another form by the process, and so would not be available the next time the process operates.

And processes happen whether they are "managed" or not...

[Resources are "what you need to be available for the process to work" - ie People, Information, Equipment, Power, Premises, Equipment, Finance, Knowledge, Skills, Competencies. The may be "put in" or "taken in" to the process, but you need them the next time you do the same thing]

Take an example of what is not an input in these terms: the worst possible outcome of “Storing goods in a warehouse" would be for the goods to be “transformed” – you want them to come out looking and working exactly the way they did when they went in.

It is the definition that causes the problems...
"An activity or set of activities using resources, and managed in order to enable the transformation of inputs into outputs, can be considered as a process."
“Storing goods in a warehouse"
What a fantastic example that still meets the definition. My storing of goods in a warehouse requires that the output is exactly as the input (you want them to come out looking and working exactly the way they did when they went in) and all the set of activities using resources and managed in order to enable the transformation (keep it as is over long period of time) of inputs into outputs is a process.
 
Last edited:

Peter Fraser

Trusted Information Resource
#14
Re: What is the difference between 'inputs' and 'resources' in the context of a proce

What a fantastic example that still meets the definition. My storing of goods in a warehouse requires that the output is exactly as the input (you want them to come out looking and working exactly the way they did when they went in) and all the set of activities using resources and managed in order to enable the transformation (keep it as is over long period of time) of inputs into outputs is a process.
I don't follow! To "transform" means to:
"change or alter in form, appearance, or nature"
"change in outward structure or looks"
"change markedly the appearance or form of"
"change the nature, function, or condition of; convert"
"change into another substance; to transmute"
"change in condition, nature, or character; convert".
 

Marcelo

Inactive Registered Visitor
#15
Inputs are needs related to the objective of the process. Resources are things used in the process, such as trained people or materials, to fullfill it´s needs (output).
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
Re: What is the difference between 'inputs' and 'resources' in the context of a proce

I don't follow! To "transform" means to:
"change or alter in form, appearance, or nature"
"change in outward structure or looks"
"change markedly the appearance or form of"
"change the nature, function, or condition of; convert"
"change into another substance; to transmute"
"change in condition, nature, or character; convert".
Yes, transform I understand as you say. It is transformation of input into output in a process. Combining management system with some pure english., my transformation required in storing goods in a warehouse, is just as you have detailed ie., (you want them to come out looking and working exactly the way they did when they went in) and I would need a lot of resources to make this happen depending upon the type and quantity of material stored in the warehouse.
If transformation in any term as you mention is adding value, and I believe we need to transform to add value., then just no any transformation adds value to my stored goods in the warehouse.
Do you see what I see ~~~
 

Peter Fraser

Trusted Information Resource
#17
Re: What is the difference between 'inputs' and 'resources' in the context of a proce

Yes, transform I understand as you say. It is transformation of input into output in a process. Combining management system with some pure english., my transformation required in storing goods in a warehouse, is just as you have detailed ie., (you want them to come out looking and working exactly the way they did when they went in) and I would need a lot of resources to make this happen depending upon the type and quantity of material stored in the warehouse.
If transformation in any term as you mention is adding value, and I believe we need to transform to add value., then just no any transformation adds value to my stored goods in the warehouse.
Do you see what I see ~~~
I'm still struggling! "Transformation" has nothing to do with "adding value". Adding value may or not be an objective, but if (for example) you "transform" a wooden toy in the warehouse into a pile of ash because the warehouse caught fire, all value has gone... And in the earlier example of keeping an item in the same state as when it went into the warehouse, it will (at best) have retained its original value, and might even have lost some if it has aged (unless it is wine or whisky...)

Unfortunately, all the words in the English version of a standard like this have to be translated into many other languages - so if there is confusion about a meaning in English, there is going to be real trouble when the word is translated. In fact, "translate" is a good example of the meaning - I did a quick search in Google and found one definition as: "change into another form; to transform". In other words, you start with one word, and end up with a different one. You cannot use the second one as if it was the first one. That is what I am trying to point out!

What you describe is "an objective being met". You start a number of actions and don't stop until you have achieved your objective - which is the way most people view their work, I suspect. If they had used different words to define what is a simple idea, it would not be an issue...
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
Let's come at this from a different angle: Why does it matter?

I ask not to be difficult. But often if we can be clear about how the two 'things' are handled, we can better define and explain them. As they say 'form follows function'.


We do need to be careful about definitions of words and recognize that the definition in the ISO standards is not always an equal match to the common use definitions. (remember our voluminous discussions regarding corrective and preventive action). For example, there have been some co-mingling of the definitions of 'resource'. In the United States we call some renewable or commonly available materials 'natural resources'. These 'resources' such as water, sun or sand can be inputs to processes.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#19
I just felt to add that ...
"A definition said in a standard for a word is always only applicable as to that standard, and must not be compared with definitions for the same word in an other standard or the dictionary."
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#20
I totally support somashekhar - the definition of "Resources" is clearly defined in the standard. If anyone has a specific example, let us discuss it here !
 
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