Inspection of PPAP samples

A

Andrews

#1
One of our customers require 1000 nos. to be sent as PPAP sample.PPAP manual requires PPAP samples to be inspected but it does not say what is the sample size to be used in cases where customer asks for more than 30 nos. as PPAP sample. Should we check 100% of the samples sent to customer or can sampling plan be used.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Andrews,
Is your custome rrequiring 1000 readings for the initial process study or is it 1000 samples?

The PPAP requirements are;
- a minimum of 300 pieces, unless otherwise required or agreed to with the customer, from a production run,
- 25 subgroups with a minimum of 100 readings.

The number of pieces to be inspected 100% is determined by the customer. In my case the customer requires 6 pieces from the 300 to be inspected 100% with the balance to be inspected 100% for SC's only. Cpk is calculated on each SC.

I would suggest that you contact your customer and clarify their requirements.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#3
There is in my mind no connection between the number of samples required as parts and the PPAP. You only have to provide dimensional results on one part, if multiple cavities , each cavity and provide PPk on 100 parts.
Some customers want 1 part others 1000. It depends on what they do with them.
One question- Who pays for 1000 parts, this is not a sample.
 
A

Andrews

#4
Thanks for all your help.

Does that mean that wherever customer requires more than 100 nos as PPAP samples (though they have paid for it) we should agree with them about the no. of samples to be inspected.Can even one sample do.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#5
I.2.2.7 Dimensional results
The supplier shall provide evidence that dimensional verifications required by the design record and the Control Plan
have been completed and results indicate compliance with specified requirements. The supplier shall have dimensional
results for each unique manufacturing process, e.g. cells or production lines and all cavities, molds, patterns or dies (see
I.2.2.13).
My emphasis
I.2.2.13
The supplier shall indicate the date of the design record, change level, and any authorized engineering change document
not yet incorporated in the design record to which the part was made.
The supplier shall identify one of the parts measured as the master sample (See I.2.2.17).
If production parts will be produced from more than one cavity, mold, tool, die, pattern, or production process, e.g. line
or cell, the supplier shall complete a dimensional evaluation (see I.2.2.7) on one part from each. The specific cavities,
molds, line, etc., shall then be identified in the “Mold/Cavity/Production Process” line on a PSW, or in a PSW attachment.
From PPAP handbook

My reading and experience is that you do not need to provide dimensional report for more than one part.
I hope this helps
 
A

Al Dyer

#7
Rak,

Under your definition, what is the difference? The PPAP run is sent to the customer. The pilot run (waiting for your definition) sounds like a set-up process engaged before the production (PPAP) run.

In either instance, capability should be determined to get a picture of the possible or actual process.
 
#8
I am bit confused. ls. Pls. correct me If I am wrong,


Per me, only one sample need to be sent as PPAP sample with measurements to the Customer. This PPAP sample should be drawn from a run of 300 parts or 1 hour of continuous run. For process capability studies minimum 25 subgroups consisting of 100 pieces should be used. Is my understanding right?
 
#9
RAK,
"Per me, only one sample need to be sent as PPAP sample with measurements to the Customer."

Sample submission qty is determined by the customer. see 1.2.2.16. You are required to retain one master sample , see 1.2.2.17.

" This PPAP sample should be drawn from a run of 300 parts or 1 hour of continuous run."

The 300 parts must be a consecutive production run from 1 to 8 hours. see 1.2.1.

"For process capability studies minimum 25 subgroups consisting of 100 pieces should be used. Is my understanding right?"

Yes. That is addressed in 1.2.2.9.1.

Para references are to the PPAP manual 3rd ed.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
K FAI (First Article Inspection) vs PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) APQP and PPAP 15
A In-Process Inspection Results ALWAYS With PPAP? APQP and PPAP 8
B TS 16949 PPAP/ Layout Inspection Frequency Requirements APQP and PPAP 8
S PPAP documents list - Checksheet for inspection IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
E What is the purpose of the AIAG's PPAP process? Elimination of customer inspection? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
B Is PPAP the same process as a ISIR (Initial Sample inspection report)? APQP and PPAP 15
Y What are different Special Inspection Level 1-4 and General spesification 1-3 ? AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 0
J Mechanical inspection techniques of close tolerance parts Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
T Help to Suggest name for a new certification and inspection company Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 7
B GM GP-12 Exit Criteria - Additional Safe Launch Inspection - (Also see GM1927-28 ) Customer and Company Specific Requirements 2
S Process Inspection -Sub assembly process inspection sheet Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 3
C OEE and In-process Inspection Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
R AS9100 - 8.4.2 - Receiving Inspection Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
I Mother bobbin final inspection criteria Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
Marc Visual Inspection - Color Vision Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 15
G Inspection Logs - Asked to remove an Inspection Sheet ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Skooma Receiving Inspection - Boss trying to save money AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
T Sample of 1st Article Inspection Report wanted APQP and PPAP 3
T Nonconforming product at customer detected by a routine inspection by field service Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
A Definition of customer in ITP (Inspection & Test Plan) Contract Review Process 3
T Correct MSA study for an automated camera system which makes attribute inspection Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
A DCMA inspection for a drop-shipment AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
S QUALITY OBJECTIVEs for third party garments factory inspection ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
D Lean and Elimination of QC Inspection Points in a New factory Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 9
F FDA-registration and inspection cost 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
I Receiving Inspection Requirement in IATF IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
R Supplier related drawings and verification of process requirements - Source Inspection AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
D AS9100 Inspection records - Is there a requirement to have gauge ID and calibration status AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
D Good Acceptance Activity/Inspection flowchart for reference - Wanted Please Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 2
K Inspection Certificate EN 10204 2.1 - Distribution company Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 4
S Improving Quality inspection gate in one piece flow manufacturing process Manufacturing and Related Processes 0
M Loss of a Quality Record - FDA Inspection Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 4
S Need Assistance in Visual Inspection - Tiny electronic components AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
S. Moore Is an Annual Layout Inspection the same as an Annual Re-validation? Internal Auditing 1
D Incoming (Receiving) Inspection - General form for incoming part inspection Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 17
K First Article Inspection (FAI) - Equipment used - Dimensions vs. Go/No-Go ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Informational USFDA Draft Guidance – Review and Update of Device Establishment Inspection Processes and Standards Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
S Inspection/sampling economics Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
C Is a First Article Inspection (FAI) Procedure required by ISO 13485? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
T EN 10204 3.1 Inspection Certificate - Machine Shop Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 4
A Doubt on multiple inspection carrying out for same balloon number during Stage Inspection and Final Inspection? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
M 3rd Party Sorting and Inspection Company Certification Service Industry Specific Topics 4
D FDA QSR task checklist based on inspection citations 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 5
John Predmore What size pinhole can be reliably detected using visual inspection? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
F Holes position inspection - Calculation of centre distance and plug sizes of a gauge Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
V Inspection with 3D Scanning - Reference Data Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 0
L Inspection Plan for Microscope Objective Lens Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
N Process Flow diagram steps for inspection and packaging APQP and PPAP 4
S Poka Yoke Inspection Retaining Ring (C-Clip) Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
J Recommendations on Inspection/SPC Software Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom