Definition Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's rights.

I

immaya08

#1
i would highly appreciate if someone could explain in subordination in an organizational setting - definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's rights.

thanks

immaya:confused:
 
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harry

Super Moderator
#2
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

I think you have to let us know which particular country/state that you are interested in. They vary from country to country and sometimes states too.

I my area, usually a maximum of 3 warnings (usually recorded as warning letter) are given, followed by domestic enquiry and dismissal if found guilty. The organizations practice is usually recorded and make known to employees in HR policies found in handbooks. The employee as well as small companies can usually approach the local labor department for help and advice.

Wikipedia reference-linkInsubordination
 
Last edited:

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

While the word "insubordination" can be defined, how it's handled is up to the organization in the US.

To reflect what Harry says - it really depends on the culture of the region and company.

Here in the US we place a lot of value on the freedom to question authority (at least I like to think so) but in a corporate environment that might been seen as insubordination in a company's culture.
When I need to get things done quickly I lean towards a "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission" but the organizations I've been with have been flexible enough to deal with that. It likely would not fly in a highly hierarchical and inflexible "follow the pecking order" environment.

As a manger I freely allow my staff to question any decision I make. Willfully defying a decision is where it can cross into insubordination for me.
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

It may be worth reviewing some of the older posts and discussions on "whistleblowers" here on the Cove.

I had a manager many years ago who tried to get me fired for insubordination. It was painful, but I managed to stay the course and was exonerated did not get fired.

But for the most part, these are really "no win" scenarios, even under full U.S. "whistleblower protection" (which fortunately I did not have to invoke).
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#5
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

As a manger I freely allow my staff to question any decision I make. Willfully defying a decision is where it can cross into insubordination for me.
Good move.

I do much the same, and encourage my folks to question anything and everything, whether for their own learning or to prevent errors (hopefully both).
I also openly draw the line: "Question anything you want to, but question from a position of obedience."

In what I think is related:
In the US there are some states that allow "at will" employment. In this case, insubordination lowers it's head dramatically. If you can be let go even if doing a great job, with no cause needed, giving cause is just plain silly.
The balance of this is that the employee can leave at any time without cause or notice...which encourages the company to treat employees rather well.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#6
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

i would highly appreciate if someone could explain in subordination in an organizational setting - definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's rights.

thanks

immaya:confused:
I'm curious about the circumstances/reasons for posing the question. Is the OP embroiled in a personal dispute (either side - accused or accuser) or is it a school-type question?

In truth, "insubordination" is a highly subjective term, depending on one's point of view.

Each case is almost unique. I can immediately think of dozens of scenarios where a manager "could" level insubordination charges while the accused could defend on grounds of safety, ethics, or "not my job," and could probably find actual cases to fit those imagined scenarios.

Certainly, government laws and regulations come into play. We had a recent thread discussing whether a pregnant woman should disclose her pregnancy to a future employer. We learned that in at least one country, an employer could demand pregnancy tests for candidates and current employees and terminate employment based on results. While that might be repugnant to many of us, it remains the law of that land and perfectly legal for the employer to do so. Obviously, it seems to me, it would follow that refusal to take such a test would be "insubordination" and also grounds for employment termination.
 
K

kgott

#7
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

i would highly appreciate if someone could explain in subordination in an organizational setting - definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's rights.

thanks

immaya:confused:
Insubordination - That's a millitree word. What role has millitree thinking got in the modern work place? Sounds like a 'the-floggings-will-continue-until-the morale-improves' type of workplace, a McGregor 'y' type workplace to me.

I read an article about leadership and motivation a while back in which it was stated that research carried out in multiple western countries had shown that most employees could give up 15%- 20% more or less effort to their work and their supervisor would never know.

I would like to ask a military style workplace leader what their plan is for providing the appropriate workplace environment and leadership style, for getting the discretionary effort from their staff. On the other hand I doubt I would ask it because I would just not be around long enough to ask it.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#8
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

Insubordination - That's a millitree word. What role has millitree thinking got in the modern work place? Sounds like a 'the-floggings-will-continue-until-the morale-improves' type of workplace, a McGregor 'y' type workplace to me. ..................................................... I would like to ask a military style workplace leader what their plan is for providing the appropriate workplace environment and leadership style, for getting the discretionary effort from their staff. On the other hand I doubt I would ask it because I would just not be around long enough to ask it.
I am sure this is part of Australian Labor Law as much as it is part of British and any Commonwealth Countries' Laws.

Have you never come across abusive bullies and misfits in the workplace who harassed and bully their work mates and carried on despite intervention and warnings from their superiors and the relevant people from HR?
 
K

kgott

#9
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

I am sure this is part of Australian Labor Law as much as it is part of British and any Commonwealth Countries' Laws.

Have you never come across abusive bullies and misfits in the workplace who harassed and bully their work mates and carried on despite intervention and warnings from their superiors and the relevant people from HR?
Yes I have Harry. There are two people out there that have set about destroying my career and they very nearly did but I have been fortunate to survive but I recognise too that my survival, at least to date, may well have been because there is has been a fair amount of work available.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Re: Insubordination in Organizations - Definition, extent; vis-a-vis employee's right

Well where I work insubordination must be the norm if you think insubordination is openly questioning authority. Here people speak their mind and are allowed the freedom to do so, however....

There is always a point at which your superior (I use that in the line manager / supervisor meaning) has taken your view into account and made a decision. His/her head then takes the responsibility of that. After that stage people can go with it or leave. So far it has been all fair.

I am not sure I like the idea of those states that allow job termination without cause. It might have benefits but it seems to me to allow exploitation by the bosses. not a problem if you are one of the bosses I guess! Mind you I once got told that even if you have protection built into the legislation you can still get rid of anyone you want IF you follow a legal procedure. Get the papers ready for a tribunal!!!!
 
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