Integrated Systems Audit Mandays Duration - IAF Requirements

G

glenn0004

#1
The company that I work for is undergoing a restructure and I have been asked to produce a report relating to our commitment to ISO 9001 & 14001 with respect to time spent auditing and supporting external surveillance audits. (how this will /could change after the restructure)
I'm aware of the IAF gudelines with respect to madays and headcount. However what I'm unclear on is their application when one or more system is audited as an integrated system. IAF guidelines state that there can be a decrease in mandays when auditing an IMS. However, a 9001 survelliance audit across 1500 employees (not with standing multisites) would be approx 5 days (1/3rd of 14 days). A low risk 14001 survelliance audit across 1500 employees (not with standing multisites) would be approx 4 days (1/3rd of 12 days) this could equal 9 days so what can we expect as the audit duration for a survelliance audit for a 9001 & 14001 based IMS.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: IAF Integrated Systems Audit Mandays Duration Requirements

The answer to your question would depend on the amount of integration of the management systems and the CB audit team's ability, composition and competence to perform adequate integrated management system audits.

From your post, it was not clear if you are familiar with the recently released IAF Mandatory Document for the Application of ISO/IEC 17021 for Audits of Integrated Management Systems - IAF MD11. Maximum reduction would be 20%.

Also, I believe that you are miscalculating the audit days. Annual surveillance audits are normally [sup]1[/sup]/[sub]3[/sub] (not [sup]2[/sup]/[sub]3[/sub]) of the initial audit duration.
 
G

glenn0004

#3
Re: IAF Integrated Systems Audit Mandays Duration Requirements

Thank you very much for the info and link - a slap on the hand for myself for the error in applying the 2/3rds factor used for recertification.
In addition I have noted that for multi-sites the headcount for each site should be used and applied??? As it looks like our current AB calculates the number of days required based roughly on the total headcount of the organisation regardless of which sites are visited, I'm trying to attain the effects of the not including all locations within our scope of registration. If sites are emitted, should the headcount be based on employees at the in scope locations or the total headcount (regardless) or...based on the locations being audited. Your help is appreciated.

 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: IAF Integrated Systems Audit Mandays Duration Requirements

As it looks like our current AB calculates the number of days required based roughly on the total headcount of the organisation regardless of which sites are visited, I'm trying to attain the effects of the not including all locations within our scope of registration. If sites are emitted, should the headcount be based on employees at the in scope locations or the total headcount (regardless) or...based on the locations being audited. Your help is appreciated.
What you are referring to as AB (Accreditation Body) should be a CB or CAB (Conformity Assessment Body). Your certification body is totally miscalculating the audit days. According to the IAF MD1 document
5.3.2. The number of man-days per site, including the central office, should be calculated for each site using the most recently published IAF document for the calculation of mandays for the relevant standard.
Do you know if your certification program uses IAF MD1? It seems to me you do, because, apparently not all sites are visited during the annual surveillance cycle, isn't it?
 
G

glenn0004

#5
Re: IAF Integrated Systems Audit Mandays Duration Requirements

Thanks for getting back to me - I'm currently waiting on a reply from our CAB, as to their calculation method.... In past years we (our company) have submitted a schedule for agreement to the CAB of the sites to be visited during each audit with the aim that over 3 years all sites are visited. If IAF MD1 is in effect with our CAB (??) the number of audit days would be controlled by a) the size of the sample to be taken from the in scope locations and b) the number employees at / working from those locations...????? I fear that our CAB has an ad-hoc calculation methodology.
 
#6
Re: IAF Integrated Systems Audit Mandays Duration Requirements

for QMS 1500 for person normaly 14 manday--- if apply full dicrease %30 (%20 from 7.3 if not+ %10 knowledge and experience of system) = 9,8 man day.

For EMS low risk for 1500 person normaly 12 manday --- if apply full dicrease %20 (%10 knowledge and experience of system+ %10 low risk environmental aspects etc. ) = 9,6 man day

9,8+9,6= 19,4 Manday (till here we apply MD5 rules)

If system is ıntegrated plus apply MD 11 rules. calculatıon of integrability according to MD11 max. dicrease is %20 ----- 19,4 manday will be 15,5 manday....

TOTALLY discrease is from 28 manday to 15,5 Manday.

Regards from TURKEY

İlker ,
Accreditation Mng. of Certification Body
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
G What to do and prepare for an Integrated Management Systems Audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
M Interview question - IMS (Integrated Management Systems) a necessity or an ISO mistake? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
A Integrated Management Systems - ISO 50001 and ISO 9001 possible? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
D IMS (Integrated Management Systems) for 6 standards ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
S Critique of an IMS (Integrated Management Systems) Manual Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 1
W Right title for IMS - Integrated Management Systems or System IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
Colin Integrated Systems Assessment for ISO 9001 / ISO 14001 / BS OHSAS 18001 Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 19
L Internal Auditing of Integrated Management Systems Internal Auditing 12
V Iso 9000:2000 / Iso 14000 Integrated Management Systems Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 1
H Integrated Management Systems IMS Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
J Integrated ISO 9000, ISO 14000 and Health & Safety OHSAS 18001 Systems Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 19
U Imagine a technology which is an artificial muscle and is integrated into textiles... Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 1
E Scales integrated in medical device IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 4
B Efficacy of Q-Das system integrated with PC-DMIS Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 0
B Integrated management system - ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 - Is possible to have a joint certificate covering both standards? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
A Integrated risk and opportunities evalution template ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 0
T From certified QMS to certified integrated MS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
A Integration of Information Security in an existent Integrated Management System IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 4
B Integrated Quality Manual ISO 13485:2003 ISO 9001:2015 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
G Integrated ISO EHSQ Multi-Site Certification ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
M Integrated Phased Processes - AS9100D cl. 8.1 Operational Planning - Clarification AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 8
S Sample document for integrated ISO 20000 & ISO 27001 Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
W ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and 18001 Integrated Approach ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
T Guidance - Setting up an integrated quality & environmental management system Career and Occupation Discussions 12
M IMS - Integrated ISO9001, ISO14001 & OHSAS 18001 Internal Audit Checklist Internal Auditing 2
S ISO 9001, ISO 17020 and ISO 3834 Joint (Integrated) QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
S GDPMD integrated with ISO9001 Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 3
D Integrated 9001, 14001, 18001 Management Review Meeting and Minutes Management Review Meetings and related Processes 10
B FMEA example for Cokemaking Process at a integrated Iron and Steelmaking Plant IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
A Measureables to Monitor an Integrated Management System Capability IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
N Standalone Corrective Action Procedure or Integrated Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
Claes Gefvenberg IMS (Integrated Management System) Audited for a week... Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 10
H Integrated Manual for ISO 9001:2008 and API Q1, Eighth Edition. Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 6
S Can the Integrated Test be linked to Software Requirements? IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 13
J Site Visit - Implementing an integrated management system ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
B How the indicator is integrated with other activities in the procedure? Customer Complaints 6
V Internal Audit of Integrated Management System Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 2
J Integrated Management System - Anyone with experience dealing with ISOQAR? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
L Open letter to inform our Vendors we are setting up an Integrated (QHSE) System Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 5
I Integrated Management System - Nonconforming Service/Product Defects ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
H ISO 26000 ... THE integrated management system? Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 8
A Internal Audit for an Integrated Management System (IMS)? Internal Auditing 17
L Calibration Procedure for an IC (Integrated Circuit) Test Socket Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 6
A Evaluating an Integrated Management System - Dissertation Topic ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
M Want Help to Implement IMS (Integrated Management System)? Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 7
M How to Implement the QHSE Integrated Management System Easy Steps? Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 1
E Integrated Standards Quality Manual Structured According to Clauses is better? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 3
A Integrated Manuals that cover ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and OHSAS 18001 Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 9
C 2nd Party Integrated Audits - PAS99 General Auditing Discussions 9
B Registration - Integrated TS 16949 and ISO 14000 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom