Integrating Q, E & S Management Systems - who is doing it?

F

FlavioLima

#11
Integrated Management System

In my current job/company we've been using this approach since start-up (ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and OHSAS 18000). Until now experience is positive: auditing all together at same time, functional departaments recognize their links easily, top management has a more clear vision of company strengths and weaknesses, corrective actions and horizontal expansion are taken in place faster than other units.
Key point to introduce this "way" of doing things was prepare and teach people about "process", their descriptions, indicators etc.
Big test now is our preparation to achieve TS16949 certification and we'll see if our "processes" do have consistency.
 
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W

WINDGAT

#13
Pas 99

Hi,
Does anyone have anymore information/tools/draft working copies of this system that I could peruse?

Many thanks
Windgat
:biglaugh:
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
I wouldn't consider any other way.

Most companies, other than oil companies with record profits, just can't afford the overhead to maintain multiple systems.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#15
WINDGAT said:
Hi,
Does anyone have anymore information/tools/draft working copies of this system that I could peruse?

Many thanks
Windgat
:biglaugh:
How I wish. I actually found someone's QES manual online and posted a link to it in another thread, but the page it was posted on has since been taken down so now the link is broken and has been removed. :crybaby:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#16
Discordian said:
I wouldn't consider any other way.

Most companies, other than oil companies with record profits, just can't afford the overhead to maintain multiple systems.
About the only thing we seem to share at this point is our birthday because your opinion sure isn't in the mix.

Can't afford to maintain multiple systems? If the clods had set up the systems correctly in the 1st place and their commitment been actual and real any "cost" would be offset to the point that people would say "Cost, what cost?"

Does customer satisfaction not have to be achieved?

Do organizations not have to at the minimum comply with environmental regualtory requirements anyway?

Do employers need to create and maintain a safe and healthy workplace?

The systems related to the above questions do address more than what is being asked, but hey, why not manage the basic krap in an efficient manner using proven methods instead of the hit-and-miss method of "modern business management" normally in use by the less than up to date dunderhead CEO's and whatever we all know and love.

If you set up and manage a system as part of the overall business process instead of it being a "special" process the system will become a leverage for success as opposed to being a pain in the butt drain on the dollar. That's why so many times the wrong person to put in charge is the Quality, Environmental of safety clod of the organization (I've been all of them and I was a clod too). The short sighted, narrow visioned (definition of Tunoptic vision or Tunopia) subject matter guru is more often than not the greatest obstacle and detractor in the organization because their focus reflects their vision, consequently the "system" winds up being more of a drain than a value added process.

Cost? Cost? Flitter and Dribble.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
Randy said:
About the only thing we seem to share at this point is our birthday because your opinion sure isn't in the mix.

Can't afford to maintain multiple systems? If the clods had set up the systems correctly in the 1st place and their commitment been actual and real any "cost" would be offset to the point that people would say "Cost, what cost?"

Does customer satisfaction not have to be achieved?

Do organizations not have to at the minimum comply with environmental regualtory requirements anyway?

Do employers need to create and maintain a safe and healthy workplace?

The systems related to the above questions do address more than what is being asked, but hey, why not manage the basic krap in an efficient manner using proven methods instead of the hit-and-miss method of "modern business management" normally in use by the less than up to date dunderhead CEO's and whatever we all know and love.

If you set up and manage a system as part of the overall business process instead of it being a "special" process the system will become a leverage for success as opposed to being a pain in the butt drain on the dollar. That's why so many times the wrong person to put in charge is the Quality, Environmental of safety clod of the organization (I've been all of them and I was a clod too). The short sighted, narrow visioned (definition of Tunoptic vision or Tunopia) subject matter guru is more often than not the greatest obstacle and detractor in the organization because their focus reflects their vision, consequently the "system" winds up being more of a drain than a value added process.

Cost? Cost? Flitter and Dribble.
whoa.

I think there's something of a misunderstanding here. I disagree with your vehemence, but not necessarily what you're saying.

Consider, my perspective comes from setting up “quality management systems” or “business management systems” or whatever you want to call them. I’ve done this for companies that have basically started from scratch when they realized their business have grown to the point where they need them to continue growth. And the only way to do it is by making one system to handle multiple requirements, because it’s not efficient to run multiple systems.

And guess what... What we do IS overhead. There is cost associated with implementing and maintaining these systems and it’s not necessarily value added. Sure, in theory $1000 in prevention can save $10,000+ in correction, but the bean counters deal with real dollars. And unless they are insurance underwriters, they don’t care about prevention.

Thus I maintain that most companies cannot maintain non-consolidated systems.
Giants can. I know first hand after being audited by the likes of L’Oreal for Safety, Quality, and GMP. Three separate audits, three separate departments, one auditee.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#18
Then it's the process and not the system that is at fault. Maybe the correct application of solid CA/PA would be the way to resolve negative issues. As for the bean counters...why should they not be a part from the beginning? And why has the financial side not been included as part of the overall benefit? Sounds like poor planning and follow through are root causes.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#19
I don’t even know if we are arguing here.

Do you disagree that consolidated systems are more efficient than separate systems?

Or do you just disagree the (perception of) cost is a factor in setting up/modifying a system?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#20
I agree that they are more efficient if they function transparent within the total management process.

I believe there is a great deal of misunderstanding related to cost vs value because many function specific professionals have no understanding and choose not to learn.
 
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