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Internal Audit CAR - How Long for Responses to be Received?

K

kylerf

#1
How long of a response time do you give your auditees on their CAR due dates? No requirement of a set "number of days" is known to me...

Currently our Internal Audit Procedure states that they have 10 days to send in their root cause, corrective actions etc.


Thoughts would be appreciated!
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
How long of a response time do you give your auditees on their CAR due dates? No requirement of a set "number of days" is known to me...

Currently our Internal Audit Procedure states that they have 10 days to send in their root cause, corrective actions etc.
If you give a Process Owner (Auditee) 10 days, I guarantee you that their main focus will be on "getting that paper of my desk" AKA "pencil whipping." The time required to resolve a nonconformity effectively and efficiently depends greatly of the type and complexity of the problem. A much better approach is to get the Process Owner involved with determining the time required. This also requires Leadership involvement.

Also read previous posts in this thread. Good stuff.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#5
I have a personal philosophy here that I pass on when helping companies implement a quality management system.

I suggest that there is value in closing corrective actions in a timely manner. When they get stale you don't learn nearly as much from them as you should. There is an analogy with accounts receivable. Most are paid in 30 days as most companies base their payment schedules on 30 day billing. When an account becomes overdue, it looses financial value, and the older it get the less likely it is to be paid. Somewhere down the line, maybe 120 days or so, it is declared noncollectable and written off (zero value). There could be exceptions such as standing by to help a customer that is going through tough times when there has been a close business relationship that may have included them giving you some slack when you went through hard times.

What I usually suggest is that it is expected that most CARs be closed in 30 days, and that management be made aware of any that are not and the reason they are still open. There has to be flexibility but that flexibility has to be managed.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
I have a personal philosophy here that I pass on when helping companies implement a quality management system.

I suggest that there is value in closing corrective actions in a timely manner. When they get stale you don't learn nearly as much from them as you should. There is an analogy with accounts receivable. Most are paid in 30 days as most companies base their payment schedules on 30 day billing. When an account becomes overdue, it looses financial value, and the older it get the less likely it is to be paid. Somewhere down the line, maybe 120 days or so, it is declared noncollectable and written off (zero value). There could be exceptions such as standing by to help a customer that is going through tough times when there has been a close business relationship that may have included them giving you some slack when you went through hard times.

What I usually suggest is that it is expected that most CARs be closed in 30 days, and that management be made aware of any that are not and the reason they are still open. There has to be flexibility but that flexibility has to be managed.
You obviously don't sell to the big guys. None of them pay in 30 days anymore. :)
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#7
As for any time line it is ineffective. Some cars you can do in a week. Some may take several months. What really should happen is the car manager should follow up regularly to maintain progress to the finish.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
How long of a response time do you give your auditees on their CAR due dates? No requirement of a set "number of days" is known to me...

Currently our Internal Audit Procedure states that they have 10 days to send in their root cause, corrective actions etc.


Thoughts would be appreciated!
There is no specific requirement for how long to respond. That is determined by the Organization. The organization I work for require an initial response (not completed CAPA) within 10 business days. The initial response usually list a timeframe when the CAPA plan has/will been completed. After that within 15 working days we perform a closure review.

Just my opinion.
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#9
How long of a response time do you give your auditees on their CAR due dates? No requirement of a set "number of days" is known to me...

Currently our Internal Audit Procedure states that they have 10 days to send in their root cause, corrective actions etc.


Thoughts would be appreciated!
Instead of focusing on days allowed to respond cas, better is to get a compromise of people, so that , is more important to attend cas by convinced people instead to be within permitted days.
That has been my criteria to follow, and working fine.
Question, in cases when you define permitted days, how frequent people fail to comply?
Interesting question.
Regard
 
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