Internal Audit Conundrum - Failure to meet On Time Delivery

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Sandy Simpson

#1
I recently did an Internal Audit and wrote up a nonconformance on jobs that reflect unrealistic lead-time/ship dates which cannot be meet. Customer requirements and on-time deliveries are not being meet.

The response I received was that moving out the lead times is not going to solve the problem. We do not have a lead-time problem, we have a capacity problem. It doesn't matter if you put 2 weeks or 2 months, if we are over capacity (which we are) we will be late no matter what date you put on it.
the Process Owner wants to know what procedures are we in violation of. He said putting certain dates on an order is not a violation of any procedure/standard.

The way I look at it if you insure a customer that they will have their parts on a specific date knowing that there is no way the parts will actually ship on that date, then that is a blatant violation/nonconformance. Isn’t it?

How do I respond to this? At the end of May we had already incurred 1,983 late order notifications! We are knowingly scheduling an average of 20 jobs a day that the Customer delivery/promise date we give them can not be met.
 
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Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Internal Audit Conundrum - Failure to meet OTD

If you are looking for an ISO 9001 requirement to write this up against, it would fall under 7.2. Your organization is expected to review orders against customer requirements. Delivery date is one of those requirements. Many times, a critical one.

As part of the "auditing for effectiveness" theme, you could try to access your customer satisfaction and complaint data. With so many late deliveries, you are certain to have unhappy customers. Keep your customers chronically dissatisfied and your problem is "solved" by not having future orders....;)
 
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trainerbob

#3
Re: Internal Audit Conundrum - Failure to meet OTD

It sounds like you do not have an issue with the process owner and his procedures(assuming they are as efficient as they can be) but rather have a problem with managements committment of resources to accomplish the work in a timely manner. Management is responsible for supplying the resources needed.(Capacity)
 
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JaneB

#6
the Process Owner wants to know what procedures are we in violation of. He said putting certain dates on an order is not a violation of any procedure/standard.
In and of itself, no it isn't violating your procedure/s (presumably). But he's myopic in his vision and blatantly wrong in his belief that he's not violating 'any standard'

You have a system certified to ISO 9001. Management commitment to that includes being able to fulfil customer requirements.

The way I look at it if you assure a customer that they will have their parts on a specific date knowing that there is no way the parts will actually ship on that date, then that is a blatant violation/nonconformance. Isn’t it?
YES. And Yes. And Yes again.

The relevant clauses have already been advised. But when you say 'how do I respond'... what kind of help/comments are you looking for here?
 
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Sandy Simpson

#7
I am just a small peon here. Telling a General Manager that he is wrong has ended in job termination in the past. Even approaching him as an authorized internal auditor is not protection. Unless I can prove irrevocable indisputable violations, I have no leg to stand on here. Even with evidence, it is his interpretation of the standard vs mine.
 
#8
I am just a small peon here. Telling a General Manager that he is wrong has ended in job termination in the past. Even approaching him as an authorized internal auditor is not protection. Unless I can prove irrevocable indisputable violations, I have no leg to stand on here. Even with evidence, it is his interpretation of the standard vs mine.
My advice is to let it go! You still have a job (a precious thing in the mid-west) and pushing home an internal audit finding that management 'don't get' isn't helpful. Since we don't know all the issues surrounding the situation, as well as you seem to, I'd not make anything further of it. If customers still come back, one might suggest that it's a risk that's acceptable. However, it might be fodder from your CB auditor to look at at some point.

Discretion is the better part of (internal auditor) valor!
 
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tomvehoski

#9
From the auditor standpoint, you have done your job by writing the finding. If management chooses to ignore it, that is management's problem. I agree with Andy that it is not worth losing your job over. I wrote an internal audit nonconformance for "not providing adequate resources..." early in my career and assigned it to General Manager. My job survived, but it didn't go over well at first.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#10
I actually like getting pushback from my auditees because in order to do so, they need to be thinking about the system and requirements.

So his question was "What is the violation of our procedure?" inferring there is no internal requirement to ship on time. It then becomes a question of knowing what the customer wants and making arrangements to meet the requirements. If there is no process to do that, lack of a process to meet 7.2.2a in order to meet 4.1c can be cited.

If customer requirements for shipments exist and they are recorded somewhere (in contracts or invoicing?) how does that information get to the people who need it? Communications are covered in 5.5.3 and 5.6.2, where management becomes informed of customer complaints... and action to improve performance relative to customer requirements is expected as per 5.6.3.

When requirements are not met, how does that information get to the people who need it? Specifically, are these late shipment notices from the customer? (sorry if that was a dumb question) If the customer cares enough to send these notices, is on-time shipment a performance metric as in 8.2.3? If it's not, shouldn't it be? 8.2.3 also says that when planned results are not achieved, corrective action shall be taken.

And so there are a number of possible paths to take for calling out a need to improve - not just operating over capacity, which may be viewed as a single finger pointed at a single person or group.

I agree it's important to call this out somehow - at times I have been known to go to various people for their input as to the best approach. In this way I avoid the impression I am pursuing some kind of agenda or applying favoritism. That may or may not work for you. It's your call. We do audit at the pleasure of our employers and risky behavior tends to get corrected eventually - too often not the way we like though. Every horse can reserve the right to die of thirst.
 
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