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Internal Audit Corrective Actions - Can a CB write an NC on an in-process CA?

paultyler

Involved In Discussions
#1
If I have generated corrective actions to nonconformances found related to not having addressed changes to REV C and am currently working those CARs to completion. Can a CB auditor issue a non-conformance during the external audit?
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Internal Audits generate corrective actions

CB auditors are supposed to view things in black-and-white, so it's possible a nonconformance will be raised but there's a possibility they'll just take into consideration that a process is in flux. However, you'd need to convince him/her you're still in control and the customers' interests are still paramount. Do you think you'll be able to do that?
 
#3
If I have generated corrective actions to nonconformances found related to not having addressed changes to REV C and am currently working those CARs to completion. Can a CB auditor issue a non-conformance during the external audit?
Since we're speaking of AS 9100 here, Paul, I believe that CB auditors have been 'required' to view things as if they were the (aerospace) "customer". As Jennifer correctly says, that puts it in the situation of a black or white view of things. Of course, your own knowledge of the situation, puts you further along the corrective action journey which is a big assistance in resolving the issue.
 

rickpaul01

Involved in HankyPanky
#4
Wow. Great question. But since there is no longer a grade associated with the audit, and you are already working on it, does it matter? Do you have to report the results of the audit to your external stake holders?
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#5
Wow. Great question. But since there is no longer a grade associated with the audit, and you are already working on it, does it matter? Do you have to report the results of the audit to your external stake holders?
No grade? Have you looked at AS9101D? The grading may be a bit different, but it's still there.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#8
Hi Big Jim,
Should I have said score instead of grade? What was your score/grade on your last Rev C audit?
I'm an AS9100C Consultant, so I have not received a grade / score as the results of an audit.

I'm also an ISO 9001:2008 Auditor and Consultant. There is no scoring / grading in ISO 9001:2008.
 

paultyler

Involved In Discussions
#9
I am not concerned about grades or scores.
What I am concerned with is completing internal audits as required by the standard and identifying non-conformances which lead to improvements, then just to have them written up again by the CB. I can understand the CB auditor noting the issue but not repeating something that is already address. FOR WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF DOING AN INTERNAL AUDIT. Goes to not making quality products, why should I care to identify issues why not wait for the customer find the problem. Goes against the entire purpose of Section 8 of the standard.
I don’t see the value of writing a non-conformance (NCR) on a issue that is already addressed by the organizations internal audit process, back to the double jeopardy issues.
 

paultyler

Involved In Discussions
#10
Re: Internal Audits generate corrective actions

The customer interest are always an important consideration. Otherwise what is the point?
 
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