SBS - The best value in QMS software

Internal Audit Corrective Actions

MarilynJ6354

Involved In Discussions
#1
The number of corrective actions entered by employees has diminished greatly in the last 7 years to the point where none have been created in 2016 yet. When asked, managers say we have a lot less problems now. When I ask how they measure improvement, they focus on customer surveys and feedback and that's it. Is it acceptable to have a corrective action system that isn't being used? Employees say they don't bother; they pick up the phone and fix the problem, but then there is nothing documenting the problems. Frustrated!
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
#2
It's a common enough problem in small organizations where you can fix a problem by catching two people together in the hall at the right moment and convening a meeting on the spot.

I work at illustrating the challenges I face in order to keep employees conscious of the need to document corrective actions.

"John - We're going to get a nonconformance in our external audit for no effective corrective action system."

"Norman, you're being ridiculous - we fix things every month !"

" Yeah, but can you prove it to me? Where is the auditable record ?"

Drive the point home - every time a problem gets discussed, bring up the issue of root cause, correction and corrective actions, until they start doing it themselves.

I'm certain there's a better way to get this done, but I work with small outfits and limited management commitment, so my toolbox has a lot of informal techniques in it.
 
Last edited:

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
they pick up the phone and fix the problem,
That is only the correction component of the corrective action loop; the problem with that approach is the fact that the same problem could be being fixed numerous times and the organization loses efficiency along the way. If the problem truly deserves a corrective action, continual shortcutting of the process means that you don't learn from the mistake.

It is wise not to inundate the corrective action process with trivial, minor issues, but let's not forget that the true indicator of a highly-effective QMS is the absence of customer dissatisfaction and great measures of productivity and efficiency.

By the way, the title of the tread refers to internal audit (driven) corrective actions. But the post does not seem to refer to outcomes of internal audits.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Under no circumstances do you want to "over document" your corrective action system. When the documentation becomes more burdensome than the action, people will rightfully stop bothering. Best thing to do is set some criteria when documentation is required. That way the "big" problem get a systematic fix while the small problems get fixed without burdening everyone.
 
J

JoShmo

#5
The number of corrective actions entered by employees has diminished greatly in the last 7 years to the point where none have been created in 2016 yet. When asked, managers say we have a lot less problems now. When I ask how they measure improvement, they focus on customer surveys and feedback and that's it. Is it acceptable to have a corrective action system that isn't being used? Employees say they don't bother; they pick up the phone and fix the problem, but then there is nothing documenting the problems. Frustrated!
I'm getting mixed messges here. Firstly, what are "problems"? Product non-conformitys? Improvement isn't about surveys and feedback. The customer mayn't notice. You could be killing yourselfs internally and that needs fixing. How do you document non-conformitys? Do you make every case into a CAR or do you allow correction? I see symptoms here which need understanding
 
M

michajel86

#6
:notme:Short and easy answer : Process approach -requirement of QMS.

Additionally
if i understand you correctly, than I would propose :Normative from 9001 clause 8.5.2" corrective actions " where is stated "A documented procedure shall be established to define requirements for" and check sections a) to e)..
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T ISO 9001:2015 Clause 9.2.2 Internal Audit - Corrective Action Report Format ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Do all findings (nonconformities) in an internal audit require a corrective action? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 55
S Corrective Action for Noncompliance with Internal Audit Procedure Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 9
N Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary? Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 16
P Internal Audit Corrective Actions - Can a CB write an NC on an in-process CA? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 27
D Refusal to take Corrective Actions after the Internal Audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
Z Internal Audit - Can auditor impose his own corrective actions? Internal Auditing 33
S Internal Audit Corrective Action Response Form Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 13
C RCA - Internal Audit Request for Corrective Action ambiguity Internal Auditing 4
MarilynJ6354 Internal Audit Corrective Actions Log issues - ISO 9001 Clause 8.2.2 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
J Internal Audit Corrective Action Request Form General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
J Looking for examples of an Internal Audit Corrective Action Form Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 6
J Internal Audit - Issuance of Corrective Actions Internal Auditing 18
SteelMaiden Closing internal audit corrective action requests Internal Auditing 9
D Internal Audit Corrective Actions Internal Auditing 6
A Add MDSAP to Internal Audit Schedule Medical Device Related Regulations 0
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
R AS9100D internal audit checklist or ISO 9001 2015 to AS9100 D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
M ISO 13485:2016 internal audit checklist Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 5
A Internal Audit Questions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
salaheddine96 Internal audit planning Internal Auditing 2
M ISO 9001 Major Nonconformance Internal Audit Schedule/COVID-19 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
E MDR internal audit Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
U Internal Auditor not trained but done Audit for some process Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
B Looking for 10 Internal Audit Online Training Participants ISO 17025 related Discussions 2
H AS9100 Checklist for Internal Audit needed AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
A What are the pros and cons of using an audit software for internal auditing? General Auditing Discussions 7
F Internal Audit before Pre-Assessment ISO 17025 related Discussions 2
Q Internal audit plan template Internal Auditing 12
L Internal audit during COVID-19 restrictions ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
O ISO13485 implementation - Are internal audits expected before stage 1 audit? Design and Development of Products and Processes 3
B Using Unreleased Documents & Process Maps for Internal Audit purposes ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
N Small Company - Internal audit process - Who does the audit? Internal Auditing 16
J Does anyone have an excel IATF 16949 Internal Audit checklist I could use? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
G Addressing Non-Conformances from an Internal Audit that are not product related ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
S Internal audit discrepancy - We missed a few audits that were scheduled Internal Auditing 12
Raffy ISO 14001 9.2.2 Internal Audit Programme Content Internal Auditing 10
N Internal Audit Schedule – Who gets to set the schedule? Internal Auditing 16
V IATF 16949 9.2.2.1 Internal Audit Program - "Process Changes" IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
G Non Conformance During ISO 9001 Audit - Not All Internal Audits Completed General Auditing Discussions 19
B Using external FDA and ISO 13485 audit as internal audit Internal Auditing 6
T Internal Audit Schedule when Hiring Out Internal Auditing 7
D ISO 9001:2015 Internal Audit Training Advice Internal Auditing 10
M Internal audit consultant ISO 13485 (English speaker) Consultants and Consulting 3
S Implementing a 45001 Health & Safety standard - Internal audit plan wanted Internal Auditing 1
F Internal Audit - Procedure example Internal Auditing 5
C Internal Audit - Process Clause Matrix / Audit Checklist ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
CPhelan Internal audit - Combine similar nonconformities in one or keep separate? Internal Auditing 6
M Internal Audit Plan in Retail Internal Auditing 10

Similar threads

Top Bottom