Internal Audit for an Integrated Management System (IMS)?

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#11
So these means that by having integrated the three mgmt system, it is not a compulsary to have an integrated audit (refer to my definition earlier)...correct me if i am wrong...
Thanks for welcoming me...lots of things to learn from u guys..haha.:thanks:
It is an opportunity that you can catch but it is not prescriptive as per ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and OHSAS 18001.
Only ISO 9001 requires to have a documented procedure for internal audit.
If your organization is ready to implement an integrated audit program, you can proceed in that direction.
In your procedure you can document it and assure the compliance.
You should also set the competence and skills of the internal auditor and make them ready to fullfil the task of the integrated audit program.:bigwave:
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#13
There is no requirement about selection of the lead auditor in internal audits.
I know, thanks for feedback.
However I was referring to the ISO 19011 guidelines, that we have also mentioned in our internal audit procedure.
I was trying to help the Cover in his question, based upon the intention to integrate the internal audit. In this sense we follow clause 5.1 of ISO 19011 Authority for the audit program and we included it in our internal audit procedure.
So , the assumption is that lead auditor should be competent and skill for managing an integrated internal audit with the selected team. That's all.
The risk of not having competent lead auditor is that the audit could fail in its scope.
hope this is clear enough:bigwave:
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
I know, thanks for feedback.
However I was referring to the ISO 19011 guidelines, that we have also mentioned in our internal audit procedure.
I was trying to help the Cover in his question, based upon the intention to integrate the internal audit. In this sense we follow clause 5.1 of ISO 19011 Authority for the audit program and we included it in our internal audit procedure.
So , the assumption is that lead auditor should be competent and skill for managing an integrated internal audit with the selected team. That's all.
The risk of not having competent lead auditor is that the audit could fail in its scope.
hope this is clear enough:bigwave:
The most closest statement from 5.1 of ISO19011 to the OP's asking perhaps is this:
"If an organization to be audited operates both quality management and environmental management systems, combined audits may be included in the audit program. In such a case, special attention should be paid to the competency of the audit team."
Thanks to qusys for elaborating and the competent lead auditor in the audit team enhances the audit team competency.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#15
The most closest statement from 5.1 of ISO19011 to the OP's asking perhaps is this:
"If an organization to be audited operates both quality management and environmental management systems, combined audits may be included in the audit program. In such a case, special attention should be paid to the competency of the audit team."
Thanks to qusys for elaborating and the competent lead auditor in the audit team enhances the audit team competency.
Agree Someashekar.
The clauses of ISO 19011 guidelines for what you mentioned are 6.2.1 and 6.2.2. The guidelines is very useful and give good practices to the internal audit programme and plan , expecially in the combined audit as the Cover asked in the original post.
Besides, whole 7.4 chapter contributes to identify competence and skill for the internal auditor that are engaged in performing combined audits and this should be take into account for the documented internal audit procedure of an organization , like I have seen in other company and do in ours.
Thanks again:bigwave:
 
#16
Thanks for welcoming me...lots of things to learn from u guys..haha.:thanks:
Yes, this place is exceedingly good if you want to learn: I have been hanging out here for more than a decade, and I am still learning things at an ever increasing rate. Stick around, and you will soon see what I mean: :agree: Not only will you be learning things you are looking for. You will also find out about stuff you did not even know you needed to know, and soon enough others will be learning from you, which will boost your own learning further. I really is a never ending positive circle...

/Claes
 
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#17
I know, thanks for feedback.
However I was referring to the ISO 19011 guidelines, that we have also mentioned in our internal audit procedure.
I was trying to help the Cover in his question, based upon the intention to integrate the internal audit. In this sense we follow clause 5.1 of ISO 19011 Authority for the audit program and we included it in our internal audit procedure.
So , the assumption is that lead auditor should be competent and skill for managing an integrated internal audit with the selected team. That's all.
The risk of not having competent lead auditor is that the audit could fail in its scope.
hope this is clear enough:bigwave:
I agree, and would add that the term 'Lead Auditor' is also confusing. For an integrated audit even with 3 auditors, there's no need for someone to be assigned as Lead Auditor. This is not an external audit. If all 3 auditors are not yet competent in the 'other disciplines' then what's the point of making one a 'lead'? The fact is that we rely on external audit models without thinking the application through.

Starting out with 3 auditors is fine, competent in their discipline or not. What may be necessary is that some coaching is required to ensure that the auditors a) do an effective job of auditing their discipline and, b) that they see the viewpoints of the other auditors, so that truly integrated audits can be done in future. This may require outside help. I am posting from a position of experience having coached such a team. None was 'lead auditor' and neither was I, but we got a good audit done!:popcorn:
 
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