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Internal Audit for Management Representative

  • Thread starter hariharakumarm - 2009
  • Start date
N

neelu

#11
#11
Coury Ferguson said:
I am a little confused here :confused:...not the first time. Where is it required that the MR (Management Rep) be audited? It requires that a Rep from Management be the focal point and take necessary actions; but where is it required that they are audited? I don't believe that is the intent of 5.5.2, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I guess majority agree that all processes including the processes for which MR is responsible need to be audited as per cl.8.2.2. Question posed here is, since only the team under MR(Quality Team) has been trained for IA, he has no trained person to audit MR processes. Cl,8.2.2 does not require that any formal training is required to be an auditor. In this case, MR can 'coach' a person( with some aptitude for audit!) fro any other Dept. of the Orgn. to be an auditor for MR processes. Or else, he can outsource audit of MR processes!! Any bidders?
 
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A

AndyN

Moved On
#12
#12
neelu said:
I guess majority agree that all processes including the processes for which MR is responsible need to be audited as per cl.8.2.2. Question posed here is, since only the team under MR(Quality Team) has been trained for IA, he has no trained person to audit MR processes. Cl,8.2.2 does not require that any formal training is required to be an auditor. In this case, MR can 'coach' a person( with some aptitude for audit!) fro any other Dept. of the Orgn. to be an auditor for MR processes. Or else, he can outsource audit of MR processes!! Any bidders?
Click to expand...
I don't believe this to be the case. Why can't someone from QA audit the Management Rep? (We still don't know what this person does) I see no reason why the MR can't be audited by someone from the department, as long as they don't audit their own work.......which if the scope of the audit it clear, shouldn't happen. It remains to be seen if they can be objective and impartial, but hey, who said they can't??
 
V

Varadarajan

#13
#13
hariharakumarm said:
Hi all:bigwave:

Please help me find out a way out of this problem.

Mine is a software development and maintenance company.

There is a QA team consisting of 7 members.

1 - Head
1 - Manager
3 - Sr.Executives
2 - Jr.Executives

Also please note that the Head of our function is the Management representative for our organisation.

Correct me if i am wrong.

Similar to the internal audits that we do for other functions (Departments viz., purchase , training , System administration ) the Management representative also should be audited..

If the statement above is correct the below is the problems that we face.

We are unable to find auditors to perform the Management representative audit.

We (QA team members) cannot perform the audit as it is the work that we do.

Hence when we call for IQA's from other departments to do the audit they simply refuse to do the audit as they have busy work on projects.:mad::eek:

My queries are:

1. Is audit necessary for MR?

2. Should a person performing an Management representative be IQA certified.

3. How frequent must be the MR audited?

4. Can a Lead auditor train a person and certify him as a internal auditor?

Thanks in advance!:thanx:
Click to expand...
1.Yes:yes:

2.Need not be.The person performing Internal audits can be a trained auditor by ANY CERTIFIED LEAD AUDITORS

3.Frequency decided by management team and specified in the Internal audit Procedure.In Normal practice we do Internal audits for all process at a frequency of 4 times a year

4.Yes




You said people refuse to audit.
Why ?have they not been informed and accepted to be be an auditor in the first case while the audit plan was done?
Take up with top management and take actions to prevent such situation in future.

Varadarajan
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#14
#14
Varadarajan said:
1.Yes:yes:

2.Need not be.The person performing Internal audits can be a trained auditor by ANY CERTIFIED LEAD AUDITORS

3.Frequency decided by management team and specified in the Internal audit Procedure.In Normal practice we do Internal audits for all process at a frequency of 4 times a year

4.Yes




You said people refuse to audit.
Why ?have they not been informed and accepted to be be an auditor in the first case while the audit plan was done?
Take up with top management and take actions to prevent such situation in future.

Varadarajan
Click to expand...
I can't agree with these answers - An effective audit program doesn't audit functions, like the MR! An effective audit program audits processes and certainly not people.

Auditors need to be competent - not just trained by 'ANY CERTIFIED LEAD AUDITORS' - that is IMHO disrespectful to the people who provide training, who may not be certified as a lead auditor, and can do a great job.

Being a LA doesn't make you a teacher of others!

Why is 'normal practice' to audit something 4 x per year? Why not do them dependent on the 'status and importance'? You might only audit something once a year!
 
H

harry

Super Moderator
#16
#16
eithur said:
of course, MR should be audited and this can be done by any of your IQA auditors..
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Cove.

As a matter of interest and for the benefit of people who are new to Quality Management Systems, where in the standard does it state that you need to audit the Management Rep.?

As Andy pointed out in the post above yours, we don't audit people (function) but processes. You audit processes for which the MR is the owner - an example of such a process is 'management review'.
 
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