Internal Audit - Is This A Nonconformance?

D

D.Scott

#21
An arrogant and prejudiced opinion here.

I think you are right in that the auditor is "trying to show something". I agree also with the observation that there is no shall which was violated. The fact that the NC was written on an internal audit still remains. The report has probably been filed neatly into a slot somewhere waiting for your CAR. The point that your engineer knew nothing about the procedure is certainly valid. He is working in an area where the manager considered it important enough to write a procedure, but not important enough to tell the employees it existed. Even without a shall, doing an internal audit I would recognize there is something not quite right here. My guess is that Jim is right, you probably don't need a procedure. I also agree that we tend to write way too many procedures that aren't really necessary.

Why not take the opportunity to review your practice of writing "how we work" procedures? If you find you do need the procedures, review your practice of not informing the employees you have them.

The US auditor works for the same company as you and isn't the enemy. The intent of an internal audit is to help identify areas for improvement. There has to be some validity in the statement that something needs some sort of improvement here. Who cares if the auditor cites the wrong or non-existant requirement? If it makes sense to fix it, why argue and upset the auditor and the corporate office?

After all, you surely must realize any arguement on your part would be futile. It may be an international standard, but the only intelligence in it came from our side of the pond. Why else do you suppose you Europeans are trying to write a new version?

Dave
 
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R

Randy Stewart

#22
eye-opening experience to be on the receiving end of US arrogance and prejudice.
And we know how much the French folks love us!!!!!!:bigwave: :truce: :vfunny:

I have a feeling that our auditor needed to show something,
It sounds like you're right, especially when it comes to auditing engineers. In my experience and IMO there are a lot of auditors out there that don't have a clue as to how engineers and engineering departments operate.
It does sound like an easy fix, and if that is the worse they could find I would take it as a good sign. :p
 
E

energy

#23
Re: An "official" answer....

Originally posted by Bruce Epstein
Well, I just got caught by this one in real life.

An internal auditor from "Headquarters" was here last week. One of the people he audited was following the procedure at 100% (by the auditor's own admission), but this person admitted that he had never seen the actual procedure itself.

We got a major NC, with the corrective action to improve our "training".

Call me older and wiser now...

:bonk:
Bruce,

Wasn't this employee taught how to behave as an auditee? There are cardinal rules to follow. Number One:Only answer the questions. That's all. Did the auditor ask if he/she ever read it? If he/she was working to the procedure, as the auditor observed, why would the auditor ask if they read it? Did the employee "volunteer" the comment that he/she never read it? Just curious.

:ko: :smokin:
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#24
Originally posted by Bruce Epstein


(*) It has really been an eye-opening experience to be on the receiving end of US arrogance and prejudice. But that's a topic for another thread. :smokin:
Wow US arrogance!! Pretty strong words! I hope that was just a joke. :(
 
E

energy

#25
Not unusual

Originally posted by ISO GUY

Wow US arrogance!! Pretty strong words! I hope that was just a joke. :(
This type of joke has been posted before, by Mr. Epstein. I'm keeping my powder dry because it may be one of those things we can't really understand in this medium. It may very well be a case of the pot calling the kettle arrogant and prejudiced.

What's the best selling book in Paris these days? Anybody know? 11 septembre, l’effroyable imposture. Top of the list at www.amazon.fr.
Even with my dismal understanding of French, I can guess what the title implies. Selling like hotcakes.
:ko: :smokin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

Bruce Epstein

#26
User profile duly updated

At the risk of dragging this topic even further off track:

just in case it wasn't already clear, I have taken the extraordinary step of adding the name of the country that issued my passport into my user profile (you'll find it in the Biography section).

Then you will understand why I take the liberty of being so hard on the US and Americans. (I am just as rough on my adopted countrymen.)

In fact, a large part of my job consists of helping to smooth down the ruffled feathers caused by the incompatibilities between the two cultures, and by the inability of each to really understand the other.

Try living as an immigrant (yes, that's what my family and I are, not "expatriates") somewhere for a while and you will see for yourself.

And, knowing that someone will ask for a clarification of the terms I used, here are my definitions:

"expatriate": someone sent to an "exotic" location for a closed-end, short-term assignment; often does not bother to learn the local language, lives in an expatriate ghetto, sends the kids to the local International school on company expense....

"immigrant": someone who, voluntarily or involuntarily, finds himself in a country other than his country of origin. Tries to integrate into the local society, with the intent of remaining "for the foreseeable future".

Bruce

P.S. In addition to the "understanding humo(u)r" thread, perhaps we need one in "understanding when someone is just blowing off steam as opposed to blowing smoke". :vfunny:
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#27
Re: Not unusual

Originally posted by energy


What's the best selling book in Paris these days? Anybody know? 11 septembre, l’effroyable imposture. Top of the list at www.amazon.fr.
Even with my dismal understanding of French, I can guess what the title implies. Selling like hotcakes.
:ko: :smokin:
Just goes to show that the Americanization of France is succeeding :( The rest of the top 10 includes such masterpieces of modern literature as "Men are from Mars", the latest John Grisham, "Lose Weight without Dieting", and a comic book.

Seriously, I believe that the success of Amazon is that the French can now secretly buy all the trash books that they wouldn't be caught dead purchasing at their local bookshop.

And, for those whose French is not up to energy's level, [look - I gave you a compliment!]:bigwave: , the book he refers to tries to make the case that no airplane crashed into the Pentagon. In other words, a fairy tale. :vfunny:

Bruce
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#28
Back to the real topic

Anyway, dragging this thread out of the muck and back to the subject at hand, I am guilty as charged about not having sufficiently "coached" the entire department about how to respond to an auditor.

I won't make that mistake twice...

Bruce
 
R

Randy Stewart

#29
Immigrant Song

Bruce I think you'll find that there are a good number of us that have qualified for immigrant status at one time or another. I have lived in Scotland, Italy and Canada and been placed in other countries with no purpose of integrating in with the locals. Even with Canada being so close I couldn't wait to get back to the states.
 
E

energy

#30
Re: Back to the real topic

Originally posted by Bruce Epstein
Anyway, dragging this thread out of the muck and back to the subject at hand, I am guilty as charged about not having sufficiently "coached" the entire department about how to respond to an auditor.
I won't make that mistake twice...
Bruce
Bruce,

It sounded like that was what happened. It's happened to me during an OSHA compliance aidit. An individual, after being told to answer just the question, confessed all his life's sins. Resulted in 2 minor write ups having nothing to do with the original question. Sometimes people try to impress others how smart they are. They don't realize that there are those who are smarter. Your engineer may have enjoyed the opportunity to demonstrate how well they comply without having to read "no stinkin procedure!":vfunny: :ko: :smokin:
 
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