Internal Audit of the Internal Audit System

J

JustADude

#1
Is it good to perform an internal audit of the internal audit system?

I have not seen it done before. I have more than one internal auditor. I could have auditor A audit all audits where she was not involved and have a different auditor audit the audits where auditor A was involved. What do you guys think?
 
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K

Ka Pilo

#2
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

Is it good to perform an internal audit of the internal audit system?

I have not seen it done before. I have more than one internal auditor. I could have auditor A audit all audits where she was not involved and have a different auditor audit the audits where auditor A was involved. What do you guys think?
Yes, audit of the IQA process is done every after the internal audit closing meeting. You have to cover the whole QMS/standard, including internal audit process.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

Auditing the internal audit process is not only a good idea, it is required by all the standards I work with.

It is also required by some (like TS 16949) that the auditor not audit his/own work, but even if not specified you are correct to try an approach such as yours. As long as the process is being audited and not just the audits done (does that make sense?) two people can indeed share the audit this way.
 
A

andygr

#5
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

The issue you go up against is the caviat "the audit is a snapshot".
BUT
You could check any issues that come in "normal" production up against the last audit record to see if the audit did indeed review the condition that now appears to be ineffective. This would then allow you to investigate why the audit did identify the shorcomming that has now manifest its self.

For Nadcap audits it is even more straight forward. We are required to self audit to the same checklist as the auditor. Once the auditor comes on site and identifes an issue they review what we self audited to with our objective evidance and if we can not show a reasonable cause for missing the issue we get a second finding for ineffective self audit.
 
K

Ka Pilo

#6
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

Yes, audit of the IQA process is done every after the internal audit closing meeting.
Could you expand on what you mean by this please?
This (audit the internal audit process) activity is performed whenever internal audit is conducted. It should be done after internal audit for some reasons –
1) Auditor(s) assigned to audit internal audit process will interview auditors who conducted internal audits to determine whether the QMS conforms to the planned arrangements, to the requirements of ISO 9001 and to the QMS requirements established by the organization, and if effectively implemented and maintained.
2) Checks the audit criteria, scope, frequency (according to planned interval), selection of auditors to ensure objectivity and impartiality,
And so on, and so forth.
 
#7
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

This (audit the internal audit process) activity is performed whenever internal audit is conducted. It should be done after internal audit for some reasons –
1) Auditor(s) assigned to audit internal audit process will interview auditors who conducted internal audits to determine whether the QMS conforms to the planned arrangements, to the requirements of ISO 9001 and to the QMS requirements established by the organization, and if effectively implemented and maintained.
2) Checks the audit criteria, scope, frequency (according to planned interval), selection of auditors to ensure objectivity and impartiality,
And so on, and so forth.
What you describe is best audited by talking to the audit process owner, not an individual auditor...don't forget that you're only referencing the ISO 9001 requirements (and only in part) not the fact that the internal audit procedure must also be audited...plus it doesn't have ('should') to be done 'after' the audit - it might be best audited while the audit is actually occurring...
 
G

GreenQuality

#8
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

We annually schedule an internal audit of the internal audit process with the goal of verifying compliance to both our internal audit process and the ISO standards. It is also the goal of our internal lead auditor to audit each internal auditors audit report when it is turned in to make sure each audit is complete and complies with our process requirements.
 
#9
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

We annually schedule an internal audit of the internal audit process with the goal of verifying compliance to both our internal audit process and the ISO standards. It is also the goal of our internal lead auditor to audit each internal auditors audit report when it is turned in to make sure each audit is complete and complies with our process requirements.
Don't you actually audit the auditors following the process? Do you know if they know how to seek objective evidence or how they plan the audit they're assigned to? Auditing the report, only, isn't telling you as much about the entire audit process and there could be some improvements screaming out for attention...IMHO
 
G

GreenQuality

#10
Re: Internal Audit of the Internal Audit Process ?

Hi Andy, Read my post again... Yes we preform audit process audit at least once a year. My point was that we also have the internal lead auditor audit each auditor's report as it is turned in. That way we dont have to wait to find problems. Thanks...
 
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