Internal Audit of Training Need Analysis - Compliance Audit

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#1
Need a small clarification ........

As per our company procedure document, "Project Manager and supervisors shall be responsible for formal training needs of the employees"...

But when I was doing the audit with the Project Manager regarding identification of training needs , he replied me saying that training need identification is done by the HR Department with the help of him. Records are with HR Dept. not with him. He could not able to answer my questions very clearly about the training programmes attended by their sub-ordinates or to be attended details. For all these, he is saying the records are with HR Dept. I have to do continuity audit in HR in next schedule. Perhaps it may be there.


One of our Company Quality Polciy statement addressing the training & development of skills of employees.

So, Based on 6.22(c), the Project Manager is not aware of the relevance and importance of their activities and how he contribute to the achievement of quality objective, I raised a Minor Non-Conformance. But it is rejected in the Management Review Meeting. I need your judgement. Whether it a Non-conformance or not.

My Question is :
why project manager is not aware of the information related to training needs? If he could not able to communicate at that time, it is clear that particular activity has not happened.

Project Manager is having main responsibility as per procedure for identifying the training needs whereas training cell is responsible for conducting the programmes only.. stated clearly..

Or else I can raise an NC as per 5.5.1 Top Management has not ensured that responsibilities and authorities are defined and communicated with in the organisation. Since Responsible & authoritity is training cell as per Project Manager statement whereas procedure says project manager is responsible..

Please pass on your comments and judgements..
 
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Jen Kirley

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#2
Re: Audit in Training Need Analysis

I have some questions.

1. What procedure contains the clause "Project Manager and supervisors shall be responsible for formal training needs of the employees"? This clause sounds like a high level responsibility of getting it done--that is, making sure the employee is given the time and resources needed to pass the training.

2. A training department may be doing all the scheduling, record keeping and general training for employees to work in their jobs. Special training should be identified via the department with the greatest understanding of the needs. Do employees in this person's group need special training?

3. If only general training is needed for this group, is the training department doing these activities without him?

4. Was this project manager in that position when the last training needs were identified?

5. Does the project manager have people under his direct responsibility?

6. Do the QMS manual and the procedure agree?

7. Has this project manager been in place longer than the procedure's requirements?

8. Is this project manager new to the company or from a completely unrelated department--or even transferred from a different site?--if so, what happens to make them ready for their duties?

If this project manager indeed has employees/contractors under his direct control and they have special training needs, especially with safety regulated topics, and the training is not being accomplished because the project manager is not performing to his responsibility because he didn't know about it, I do see an issue worth pursuing.

It would be most helpful to show why the needs are important. If errors are being performed or safety regulations not followed, the training issue becomes one of quantifiable interest to management. But you would be the one to point that out to them.

If no errors are being performed and no safety rules violated, the issue becomes a question of how managers are prepared to assume their positions. If employee training needs are identified, and managers' needs are not, one could question how long it would take for employee training needs to go unmet...unless other managers get some secret knowledge or they just know it from their work while going up in the ranks. If they come ready with their knowledge because they're operating in the same departments for years, this kind of awareness need can go unrecognized for years.
 

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#5
Re: Audit in Training Need Analysis

I have some questions.
Let me thank for your questions first..
1. What procedure contains the clause "Project Manager and supervisors shall be responsible for formal training needs of the employees"? This clause sounds like a high level responsibility of getting it done--that is, making sure the employee is given the time and resources needed to pass the training.
This is not addressed by clause.. It is stated by my company training procedure.. an internal document brought under the scope of QMS. In that procedure , he is accountable for the identification of training.
2. A training department may be doing all the scheduling, record keeping and general training for employees to work in their jobs. Special training should be identified via the department with the greatest understanding of the needs. Do employees in this person's group need special training?

3. If only general training is needed for this group, is the training department doing these activities without him?

4. Was this project manager in that position when the last training needs were identified?
No objective evidence is available for identification of meeting of Training Dept with the Project Manager. But Training dept. shall search for the training needs from the appraisal form submitted by the project manager. But he is not aware of those details / data. He simply says the custodian is HR Training Cell.
5. Does the project manager have people under his direct responsibility?
Project Manager is having a team of 15 Members.
6. Do the QMS manual and the procedure agree?
agree totally..
7. Has this project manager been in place longer than the procedure's requirements?
He was 6 Months old to this company..Not very new
8. Is this project manager new to the company or from a completely unrelated department--or even transferred from a different site?--if so, what happens to make them ready for their duties?
Induciton Programme has been given to him and intranet facility is provided to him to access all dept. and project procedures
If this project manager indeed has employees/contractors under his direct control and they have special training needs, especially with safety regulated topics, and the training is not being accomplished because the project manager is not performing to his responsibility because he didn't know about it, I do see an issue worth pursuing.

It would be most helpful to show why the needs are important. If errors are being performed or safety regulations not followed, the training issue becomes one of quantifiable interest to management. But you would be the one to point that out to them.

If no errors are being performed and no safety rules violated, the issue becomes a question of how managers are prepared to assume their positions. If employee training needs are identified, and managers' needs are not, one could question how long it would take for employee training needs to go unmet...unless other managers get some secret knowledge or they just know it from their work while going up in the ranks. If they come ready with their knowledge because they're operating in the same departments for years, this kind of awareness need can go unrecognized for years.
I totally agree with this statement. But the point here is , the project manager says whenever any human errors happend in the work place , he simply replace them by sack them.( Manual Employees at Site). He also says , he does not have time for sending his team to training cell since if they leave the project work schedule will be affected..

Our Company Policy also focussed on training & developing the skill sets of employees at all levels. So why project manager doesnt take any steps on his part. what is his project contribution in achieving the company quality objectives.

am i right or wrong... Once again thanks for your reply
 
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