Internal audit of warehouses via Skype

Dan M

Involved In Discussions
#1
Our registrar moved our audit date of our warehouses from May to March. We were planning to do our internal audits in April. Now we are faced with having to travel to four locations in one week they’re are in different regions of the country.

Our registrar also informed us that we would have to audit all four facilities prior to the transition audit. We were planning on originally completing the internal audits in April.

Is this an actual requirement? Our corporate facility already completed our iSO 9001 Audit and all of these facilities are on a sampling plan of
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Our registrar moved our audit date of our warehouses from May to March. We were planning to do our internal audits in April. Now we are faced with having to travel to four locations in one week they’re are in different regions of the country.

Our registrar also informed us that we would have to audit all four facilities prior to the transition audit. We were planning on originally completing the internal audits in April.

Is this an actual requirement? Our corporate facility already completed our iSO 9001 Audit and all of these facilities are on a sampling plan of
Talk to your registrar and get clarification.

The standard does required that you perform audits but it lets established the frequency and it does not have to be yearly.

As long as you can demonstrate effectiveness - not an issue.

There are no requirements in the standard to do all facilities, however talk to your registrar and ask for clarification and reference to this new requirement.

"9.2.2 The organization shall:

a. plan, establish, implement, and maintain an audit program(s) including the frequency, methods, responsibilities, planning requirements, and reporting, which shall take into consideration the importance of the processes concerned, changes affecting the organization, and the results of previous audits;

b. define the audit criteria and scope for each audit;
 
#3
You're on a single certificate sampling plan? Then the Transitions would be done during the scheduled sampling plan, not all locations have to be audited. I did a company last year that has about 30 locations on the certificate and I did 5 or 6 transitions during the scheduled surveillance audits for that year as part of the sample.

Sounds like you may be getting skinned for $$$
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
Sounds like you may be getting skinned for $$$
The way I understood the question is about the need for the internal audits to cover all sites, not the CB's.

A basic premise of organizations transitioning their certification to a new revision of the standard is that the organization has ensured the WHOLE system is in compliance with the "new requirements". The internal audit process is an important component of that assurance mechanism.

The expectation is that all of the sites have "transitioned" to the "new system", before you can expect to be certified as such.

As for the question in the title of the thread which never made it to the text of the post about the possibility of virtual, remote, computer based audits depend a lot on what the organization does. The answer would be significantly different if you are a call center, versus a manufacturer of custom built hardware.
 
Last edited:

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
The standard does required that you perform audits but it lets established the frequency and it does not have to be yearly.

As long as you can demonstrate effectiveness - not an issue.

There are no requirements in the standard to do all facilities, however talk to your registrar and ask for clarification and reference to this new requirement.

"9.2.2 The organization shall:

a. plan, establish, implement, and maintain an audit program(s) including the frequency, methods, responsibilities, planning requirements, and reporting, which shall take into consideration the importance of the processes concerned, changes affecting the organization, and the results of previous audits;

b. define the audit criteria and scope for each audit;
Huh?

My answer? Have you audited the new/different things as they apply to these locations? The CB (I'm guessing a non-technical or non-thinking person) is telling you half the story. Much in ISO 9001 hasn't changed. You only need audit the new/different, frankly, to be certain you won't be non-compliant. But to audit everything before transition is BIZARRE...
 

Dan M

Involved In Discussions
#6
First of all, my OP was cut off for some reason. I was asking if an internal audit could be done remotely via Skype and email if an organization had more facilities to audit in a week than was feasibly possible if travel was required.

I spoke with my CB. Their response is that the Rules do not specify the method by which an internal audit is conducted, just that the audit is effective. This means that yes, an audit via Skype would be possible so long as the processes are not very complex. We are planning to use this technique for our warehouses

Even if the organization is on a certification sampling plan (not all locations get audited every year), it is still a requirement that all locations listed on the Cert have been internally audited and the results of the audits covered in a management review prior to the transition audit.

Yes, the internal audits and management review input/output can be limited to the delta of requirements between ISO 9001:2008 and ISO 9001:2015.
 

Ian_Morris

Involved In Discussions
#7
My first question would be why has the CB pulled forward the audit to March from May and why did you accept the change.

If you had dates planned in with them and your preparations have been planned around this date I would not have accepted the new dates in March. Remember they are your supplier and in this situation it appears that the tail is wagging the dog.

Second point would be, how would you intend to audit a warehouse operation with Skype. I could see that a video conference and screen sharing could work for data processing or administrative functions,but a warehouse audit should take into account the surroundings and physical work. I am struggling to see how this could be achieved remotely.

Unless there are specific constraints from your end around the dates I would push back and move the dates back to where they originally were.

:2cents:
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
First of all, my OP was cut off for some reason. I was asking if an internal audit could be done remotely via Skype and email if an organization had more facilities to audit in a week than was feasibly possible if travel was required.

This means that yes, an audit via Skype would be possible so long as the processes are not very complex. it is still a requirement that all locations listed on the Cert have been internally audited and the results of the audits covered in a management review prior to the transition audit.
I agree with the comment about auditing a warehouse without actually being there. My question is, WHY are you auditing? If you take the requirement to audit based on the "importance of the process", "changes affecting the organization". If we consider these, how important is the warehouse (problems in there?) or have there been any changes affecting its operation? If the answers to both are, not very and none, then why bother until other, more important processes are taken care of...?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#9
Second point would be, how would you intend to audit a warehouse operation with Skype. I could see that a video conference and screen sharing could work for data processing or administrative functions,but a warehouse audit should take into account the surroundings and physical work. I am struggling to see how this could be achieved remotely.
I agree. Typical issues at warehouses, from a quality standpoint include damaged, deteriorated, unidentified products. Not easy to verify (yet) remotely. But, as suggested, if historical data show that not to be a concern, so be it.

As for the CB unilateral change of dates, the transition deadline crunch is sure at play.
 
Last edited:

Dan M

Involved In Discussions
#10
The Registar actually told me that I would need to internally audit all of my remote facilities (8 in total) to confirm conformance to the changes in ISO 9001:2015, even though they are only sampling 4 of the facilities. Most of these facilities are low risk, so normally I would consider spending my time elsewhere. This is a total waste of our resources.

I don't even have official audit date confirmations yet for audits happening at the end of this month. This is a very well known Registar, by the way.


I agree with the comment about auditing a warehouse without actually being there. My question is, WHY are you auditing? If you take the requirement to audit based on the "importance of the process", "changes affecting the organization". If we consider these, how important is the warehouse (problems in there?) or have there been any changes affecting its operation? If the answers to both are, not very and none, then why bother until other, more important processes are taken care of...?
 

Top Bottom