That's just fine..........
I'm not looking for an endorsement! 'H' and I don't see eye to eye on audit stuff, either. What I'm sharing is based on training and consulting over 20 years of implementation and meeting very frustrated auditors and disengaged management, who don't have a clue what value to expect from their internal audit program.
'H' - I'm guessing you do quite a lot of external audits. Third party audit clients don't complain (well, rarely, since they risk reprisal) to their registrar - they complain to me, when they come to my classes. When I consult, I constantly meet management who are gun shy of third party auditors and cannot show any tangible benefit from audits.:mg:
Sure, they smile and tell auditors "Great, we welcome your comments", but behind the scenes, it's different, in my experience.
My comments are based on trying to offer my clients an alternative to finding a 'sampling plan' to audit. I'm attempting to give auditing the same kudos that 6 Sigma gets - think about it, the process isn't so different
Andy (self confessed audit heretic.........)
Greg B said:
Andy, I cannot agree with this at ALL. Whilst I do not audit everything an external auditor would audit I think it is part of any full process audit that I establish that everyone is competent in their positions. I audit the Process not the Standard (I leave that to the 3rd party) and by process I mean All the Inputs and Outputs and everything involved in the process steps. I look from a business angle and look at waste, efficiency etc. Personally I don't care if the auditee is a bit put out by my randomness and I never set a figure or percentage.
In general, I don't agree that we require a formalised sampling number. We are not there to Pass or Fail as in a QC setting. We are there to ensure that the business processess are efficient and effective. We do this by obeservation, questioning and the the collection of facts.
In general, I don't agree that we require a formalised sampling number. We are not there to Pass or Fail as in a QC setting. We are there to ensure that the business processess are efficient and effective. We do this by obeservation, questioning and the the collection of facts.
'H' - I'm guessing you do quite a lot of external audits. Third party audit clients don't complain (well, rarely, since they risk reprisal) to their registrar - they complain to me, when they come to my classes. When I consult, I constantly meet management who are gun shy of third party auditors and cannot show any tangible benefit from audits.:mg:
Sure, they smile and tell auditors "Great, we welcome your comments", but behind the scenes, it's different, in my experience.
My comments are based on trying to offer my clients an alternative to finding a 'sampling plan' to audit. I'm attempting to give auditing the same kudos that 6 Sigma gets - think about it, the process isn't so different
Andy (self confessed audit heretic.........)
