Internal Audit Schedule Conformance

R

Randy Lefferts

#11
While a lot of good advice has been given, I am not entirely sure the advice is applicable to the question at hand.

Unless I am misunderstanding something, it sounds as if he is trying to trend audits not being performed/rescheduled. While opening the window to a month is a good idea, it's not really the answer to the op's question.

There is something obviously going on if audits are consistently being moved / not performed. It sounds as if he wants to track these audits/auditors to prove / disprove a systemic issue. There is / can be value in that. It should be fairly simple to track this.

Paul, leaving these open and unresolved may result in a finding but sometimes, as unfortunate as it is, it takes a finding to open the eyes of management.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
Randy: What if the OP didn't enlist management's input to planning the audits? What if the audit program was based on something arbitrary like clauses? Wouldn't the very planning process be at fault in not enlisting management's support, to focus on what was important to them? How would tracking missed audits reveal that it was the very audit program which was the root cause?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#13
IA schedules are like New Years Resolutions....they get tossed into the *hitter as soon as something gets in the way such as "We're not ready" or "Such and so will be on vacation" or "My dog ate my homework" and so on

What can you do about it? Fall back and punt I guess. From what you posted your IA's seem to be getting into the way and until your SR management really cares and places it's emphasis on the importance of the IA process, you could shove dynamite up everyones 5th point of contact and you still won't get movement.

The again, have you taken an honest and objective look at what true value or perception of value comes out of the audits you perform and the results that you provide?....Could be a self inflicted wound;)
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#14
Randy: What if the OP didn't enlist management's input to planning the audits? What if the audit program was based on something arbitrary like clauses? Wouldn't the very planning process be at fault in not enlisting management's support, to focus on what was important to them? How would tracking missed audits reveal that it was the very audit program which was the root cause?
Andy, I don't disagree with what you are saying. However, the op asked a specific question and it seems as if we were reading into and making assumptions that he didn't have management buy in to the audit program. We don't know whether he did or didn't but more to the point, he simply asked if he would receive a non-conformance if he left it open/late in order to track it.

While a lot of the advice given was good advice, did it really answer the question he asked? I wasn't trying to take away from the advice offered but rather answer the question he asked. :)
 
#15
Thanks, Randy. You made me go back and look at Paul's OP. It now occurs to me that, through the (correct) use of documentation controls, the need for the updated audit schedule should be recorded and without any extra 'tracking' on his part, a trending could be readily identified. I still feel it's a waste of time and can't see a good use for the information derived!:popcorn:
 

JoCam

Trusted Information Resource
#17
Moving forward, I want to track and measure the audits that are not completed on the scheduled date leaving the completed date as "Late". I am curious if this would cause a nonconformance during or Surveillance Audit.
Hi Paul,

I produce an annual schedule of audits only to ensure all clauses are covered in that timescale, and specify in the procedure that although scheduled to occur in a particular month, they can be re-scheduled +/- 1 month at the auditors discretion.

All amendments to the schedule are captured as indicated in the attachment, and this information is reviewed during the audit of the internal audit process. The main reason for doing this is to ensure adequate resources are available to perform internal audits, and the objective evidence is a good way of getting senior and departmental managers to approve the requirement for additional audit team members.

It isn't always necessary to raise a non-conformance for re-scheduled audits, but if the reason always seems to be due to a lack of resource I would recommend you do so.

If you apply the controls I've detailed here I would be very surprised if a CB Auditor raises a non-conformance.

I hope this helps in some way.

NOTE: For the eagle-eyed among you: - On the attachment customer communication and production clauses are excluded as the company this schedule was compiled for were in the final stages of product design, therefore no product was being manufactured or despatched.
 

Attachments

#18
Hi Paul,

I produce an annual schedule of audits only to ensure all clauses are covered in that timescale, and specify in the procedure that although scheduled to occur in a particular month, they can be re-scheduled +/- 1 month at the auditors discretion.
Jo: I'm very concerned when I read this type of thing about audits and scheduling. Internal Audits are an important management tool and should be scheduled based on status and importance - "risk and impact" are better words. To do any audits to satisfy 'each clause a year' or allowing auditors to reschedule is doing management a disservice IMHO. If the audit doesn't consider what's important to the effective operation of the business processes, customers' satisfaction, and profitability, there's little point in doing them except to placate a CB auditor!

I have to ask: how do you explain how your schedule meets the "status and importance" requirement?
 
#19
Thanks Randy you are correct, I am just curious if it would create a noonconformance.

Management has bought into the audit schedule and actually we use that in our weighted scale to schedule audits using both Top Management Request and also what they feel is a potential business impact.

If I can track it and determine it is always the same auditor, the same department, or the same auditee and then address it by taking the auditor out of rotation, talking to the department manager or speaking with the auditee I cannot see how there is no value? What if through the tracking I see that there is one specific department that has an issue each time and after speaking with them it is as easy as the manager telling me that Tuesdays are their busy days? At that point, I know not to schedule Tuesday audits with "Sales".
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#20
Normally, I would see little value in tracking late/rescheduled audits...missed audits are something entirely different. However, if there are frequent areas where audits are late/rescheduled or missed, then yes, I would start tracking this and the reasons for the late/rescheduled/missed statuses.

I did have one area that was fairly consistent in their creativity when it came time for our annual system internal audit (all areas, all process). Of course, over time they began to realize that, while I was smiles and understanding and compassion at the time of the "we can't be audited right now because of...", and I was gracious enough to reschedule for a time that was more convenient for them, come time of their solo audit, I was spending a lot more time than normal and digging a lot deeper. Eventually, the creative excuses stopped and they were available for the system audit. ;)
 
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