Internal Audit Trainer Qualifications Requirements (TS 16949)

X

xavierthomas

#1
Hello!
A CB Auditor stated that I was not qualified to instruct personnel to be Internal Auditors and issued a Major NC. He claims the following are not adequate:
15 years experience as a Certified ASQ Certified Manager
Completed certified 40 hour courseas a Lead Auditor for ISO9001:2002, TS 16949 QMS in 2004, with an update transition seminar for ISO9001:2008 in 2010.
Self study of the AIAG APQP manuals to build PPAP, Control Plans, FMEA, SPC, etc.
Completed numerous seminars on APQP, 6Sigma DMAIC, etc.
Developed and implemented 2 day training sessions for personnel on FMEA, and Internal auditing.

Conducted 100's of Internal audits over the past 10 years, both individually and as a Lead auditor.

Never, in 10 years have I received even a minor NC for a CB, until now.

What more can I do? Any advice is appreciated.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Re: Internal Audit trainer qualifications

Complete rubbish, if it's as you posted. Let us know how they recorded this as an NC, please. Redact any sensitive details of course, but give us the text. How can this be a major? Call your CB and tell them to rescind the finding, that you don't want the auditor back and - I'd suggest - you look to transfer your Certificate.
 
N

natecsss

#3
Re: Internal Audit trainer qualifications

I can't use the word I want to but that's nonsense. You may want to look into getting a different auditor and someone else to conduct your certifications.
 
X

xavierthomas

#4
Thank you. I am looking into the finding reversal. This is the same registrar since 2002. They gave only two minors in the past three years and none of any kind in the past two and now 3 Majors and 4 minors. Frustrating, especially since customers are happy, sales and earnings are growing and morale was strong, until now.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Hello!
A CB Auditor stated that I was not qualified to instruct personnel to be Internal Auditors and issued a Major NC. He claims the following are not adequate:
15 years experience as a Certified ASQ Certified Manager
Completed certified 40 hour courseas a Lead Auditor for ISO9001:2002, TS 16949 QMS in 2004, with an update transition seminar for ISO9001:2008 in 2010.
Self study of the AIAG APQP manuals to build PPAP, Control Plans, FMEA, SPC, etc.
Completed numerous seminars on APQP, 6Sigma DMAIC, etc.
Developed and implemented 2 day training sessions for personnel on FMEA, and Internal auditing.

Conducted 100's of Internal audits over the past 10 years, both individually and as a Lead auditor.

Never, in 10 years have I received even a minor NC for a CB, until now.

What more can I do? Any advice is appreciated.
Apparently you have to be The Pope as well. Good luck.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Thank you. I am looking into the finding reversal. This is the same registrar since 2002. They gave only two minors in the past three years and none of any kind in the past two and now 3 Majors and 4 minors. Frustrating, especially since customers are happy, sales and earnings are growing and morale was strong, until now.
I think **** is really rolling down hill. I have seen a lot of BS changes in our auditors the past two years. How do you go from no findings to 3 majors in a year? Good luck.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#7
Hello!
A CB Auditor stated that I was not qualified to instruct personnel to be Internal Auditors and issued a Major NC. He claims the following are not adequate:
15 years experience as a Certified ASQ Certified Manager
Completed certified 40 hour courseas a Lead Auditor for ISO9001:2002, TS 16949 QMS in 2004, with an update transition seminar for ISO9001:2008 in 2010.
Self study of the AIAG APQP manuals to build PPAP, Control Plans, FMEA, SPC, etc.
Completed numerous seminars on APQP, 6Sigma DMAIC, etc.
Developed and implemented 2 day training sessions for personnel on FMEA, and Internal auditing.

Conducted 100's of Internal audits over the past 10 years, both individually and as a Lead auditor.

Never, in 10 years have I received even a minor NC for a CB, until now.

What more can I do? Any advice is appreciated.
If you are a direct supplier to Ford, your impressive resume might not meet the requirements. But, otherwise, it should be evaluated based on the internal audit effectiveness itself. If your audits are robust, the training was effective...if the audits are weak...the training was not effective. Only a few customers have CSRs dealing with internal audit training qualifications.
 

cbhigdon3

Starting to get Involved
#8
Ask your auditor/CB where in the standard (actual language) that it says you don't have enough qualifications to be training the people at your organization. Our organization recently went through the same kind of thing where our auditor insisted that internal auditors have a certification indicating that they were trained at RABSQA qualifications and, as such, issued us a minor. So I fought it and went over the auditor's head within the CB and it was dropped.

We had another non-conformance that the auditor insisted wasn't going to get closed out until we changed our quality manual and this too was also dropped because I complained loudly to the CB.

Last thing - be sure to ask that this particular auditor not be allowed to come back to your organization. Helps drive the point home that opinion-based auditing has no place...
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C ISO/TS16949 Requirements for Internal Audit Trainer IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
tony s TS 16949 Internal Audit Trainer Traceability to IATF General Auditing Discussions 6
U QS 9000 Audit - Trainer of internal auditors not having formal training QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 6
H AS9100 Checklist for Internal Audit needed AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
A What are the pros and cons of using an audit software for internal auditing? General Auditing Discussions 4
F Internal Audit before Pre-Assessment ISO 17025 related Discussions 2
Q Internal audit plan template Internal Auditing 5
L Internal audit during COVID-19 restrictions ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
O ISO13485 implementation - Are internal audits expected before stage 1 audit? Design and Development of Products and Processes 3
B Using Unreleased Documents & Process Maps for Internal Audit purposes ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
N Small Company - Internal audit process - Who does the audit? Internal Auditing 16
J Does anyone have an excel IATF 16949 Internal Audit checklist I could use? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
G Addressing Non-Conformances from an Internal Audit that are not product related ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
S Internal audit discrepancy - We missed a few audits that were scheduled Internal Auditing 12
Raffy ISO 14001 9.2.2 Internal Audit Programme Content Internal Auditing 5
N Internal Audit Schedule – Who gets to set the schedule? Internal Auditing 16
V IATF 16949 9.2.2.1 Internal Audit Program - "Process Changes" IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
G Non Conformance During ISO 9001 Audit - Not All Internal Audits Completed General Auditing Discussions 19
B Using external FDA and ISO 13485 audit as internal audit Internal Auditing 6
T Internal Audit Schedule when Hiring Out Internal Auditing 7
D ISO 9001:2015 Internal Audit Training Advice Internal Auditing 10
M Internal audit consultant ISO 13485 (English speaker) Consultants and Consulting 3
S Implementing a 45001 Health & Safety standard - Internal audit plan wanted Internal Auditing 1
F Internal Audit - Procedure example Internal Auditing 5
C Internal Audit - Process Clause Matrix / Audit Checklist ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
CPhelan Internal audit - Combine similar nonconformities in one or keep separate? Internal Auditing 6
M Internal Audit Plan in Retail Internal Auditing 10
D Management of NC after internal system audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
A Purchasing - Internal Audit Questions Internal Auditing 8
N Comprehensive Compliance Matrix for Internal Audit Checklist Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1
W Where to begin with an ISO 9001:2015 internal audit Internal Auditing 13
D Internal audit forms or checklists for a medical/veterinary laboratory General Auditing Discussions 5
E Informational Internal Audits - Wear multiple hats what can and can't I audit (so I'm not auditing my own work) Internal Auditing 144
E ISO 9001:2015 - Internal Audit Plan Clauses General Auditing Discussions 8
S Internal Audit Checklist for Application/Software development IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 1
S Internal Audit - Risk and Opportunity (ISO 9001:2015 ) Internal Auditing 1
F API Spec Q1 9th Edition Surveillance Audit - Questions about internal audits. Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 23
Ashland78 IATF 16949 Internal Audit Checklist Manufacturing and Related Processes 11
Ed Panek Root Cause CAPAs from internal audit ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 16
K Student wanting Case Study about Internal Audit Report Internal Auditing 1
R How far apart can you schedule separate areas or departments in your internal audit? Internal Auditing 4
D Auditing Our Outsourced 2nd-3rd Party Internal Audit Company ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
A API Spec Q1 9th Edition - 12 month Internal Audit Schedule Audit Nonconformance Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 10
J Microsoft Teams to manage Internal Audit System? Internal Auditing 3
tony s An organization's Internal Audit Office certified to ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 28
Tagin Does ISO 9001:2015 require a full internal audit annually? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 21
S GM/VP softgrading internal audit finding - need feedback from an audit guru! General Auditing Discussions 11
M Internal Audit Assessment Criteria - ISO 13485:2016 Internal Auditing 21
V Process and Internal Audit Criteria matrix wanted Internal Auditing 8
S Internal Audit Completion Memorandum Internal Auditing 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom