Internal Audit Trainer Qualifications Requirements (TS 16949)

[xavierthomas]

Hello!
A CB Auditor stated that I was not qualified to instruct personnel to be Internal Auditors and issued a Major NC. He claims the following are not adequate:
15 years experience as a Certified ASQ Certified Manager
Completed certified 40 hour courseas a Lead Auditor for ISO9001:2002, TS 16949 QMS in 2004, with an update transition seminar for ISO9001:2008 in 2010.
Self study of the AIAG APQP manuals to build PPAP, Control Plans, FMEA, SPC, etc.
Completed numerous seminars on APQP, 6Sigma DMAIC, etc.
Developed and implemented 2 day training sessions for personnel on FMEA, and Internal auditing.

Conducted 100's of Internal audits over the past 10 years, both individually and as a Lead auditor.

Never, in 10 years have I received even a minor NC for a CB, until now.

What more can I do? Any advice is appreciated.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Internal Audit trainer qualifications

Complete rubbish, if it's as you posted. Let us know how they recorded this as an NC, please. Redact any sensitive details of course, but give us the text. How can this be a major? Call your CB and tell them to rescind the finding, that you don't want the auditor back and - I'd suggest - you look to transfer your Certificate.

 

[natecsss]

Re: Internal Audit trainer qualifications

I can't use the word I want to but that's nonsense. You may want to look into getting a different auditor and someone else to conduct your certifications.

 

[xavierthomas]

Thank you. I am looking into the finding reversal. This is the same registrar since 2002. They gave only two minors in the past three years and none of any kind in the past two and now 3 Majors and 4 minors. Frustrating, especially since customers are happy, sales and earnings are growing and morale was strong, until now.

 

[Golfman25]

Hello!
A CB Auditor stated that I was not qualified to instruct personnel to be Internal Auditors and issued a Major NC. He claims the following are not adequate:
15 years experience as a Certified ASQ Certified Manager
Completed certified 40 hour courseas a Lead Auditor for ISO9001:2002, TS 16949 QMS in 2004, with an update transition seminar for ISO9001:2008 in 2010.
Self study of the AIAG APQP manuals to build PPAP, Control Plans, FMEA, SPC, etc.
Completed numerous seminars on APQP, 6Sigma DMAIC, etc.
Developed and implemented 2 day training sessions for personnel on FMEA, and Internal auditing.

Conducted 100's of Internal audits over the past 10 years, both individually and as a Lead auditor.

Never, in 10 years have I received even a minor NC for a CB, until now.

What more can I do? Any advice is appreciated.

Apparently you have to be The Pope as well. Good luck.

 

[Golfman25]

Thank you. I am looking into the finding reversal. This is the same registrar since 2002. They gave only two minors in the past three years and none of any kind in the past two and now 3 Majors and 4 minors. Frustrating, especially since customers are happy, sales and earnings are growing and morale was strong, until now.

I think **** is really rolling down hill. I have seen a lot of BS changes in our auditors the past two years. How do you go from no findings to 3 majors in a year? Good luck.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Hello!
A CB Auditor stated that I was not qualified to instruct personnel to be Internal Auditors and issued a Major NC. He claims the following are not adequate:
15 years experience as a Certified ASQ Certified Manager
Completed certified 40 hour courseas a Lead Auditor for ISO9001:2002, TS 16949 QMS in 2004, with an update transition seminar for ISO9001:2008 in 2010.
Self study of the AIAG APQP manuals to build PPAP, Control Plans, FMEA, SPC, etc.
Completed numerous seminars on APQP, 6Sigma DMAIC, etc.
Developed and implemented 2 day training sessions for personnel on FMEA, and Internal auditing.

Conducted 100's of Internal audits over the past 10 years, both individually and as a Lead auditor.

Never, in 10 years have I received even a minor NC for a CB, until now.

What more can I do? Any advice is appreciated.

If you are a direct supplier to Ford, your impressive resume might not meet the requirements. But, otherwise, it should be evaluated based on the internal audit effectiveness itself. If your audits are robust, the training was effective...if the audits are weak...the training was not effective. Only a few customers have CSRs dealing with internal audit training qualifications.

 

[cbhigdon3]

Ask your auditor/CB where in the standard (actual language) that it says you don't have enough qualifications to be training the people at your organization. Our organization recently went through the same kind of thing where our auditor insisted that internal auditors have a certification indicating that they were trained at RABSQA qualifications and, as such, issued us a minor. So I fought it and went over the auditor's head within the CB and it was dropped.

We had another non-conformance that the auditor insisted wasn't going to get closed out until we changed our quality manual and this too was also dropped because I complained loudly to the CB.

Last thing - be sure to ask that this particular auditor not be allowed to come back to your organization. Helps drive the point home that opinion-based auditing has no place...