Internal Audit vs. Customer Audits - Can we count Customer Audits as IAs?

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#21
Hi Douglas,
Can I use the attached file in our own use? :)

I agree :agree: with you that we need to track the completions accordingly.

Thanks and best regards,
Raffy
 
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Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#22
SURE!

Raffy,

Any of the attachments I supply can be used by forum participants. Marc's Free Files were an inspiration to me back when I first began developing systems to ISO & QS.
 
S

Sushil Kumar

#24
Yes, I also agree with David.
I also shows auditors that I have skip this audit as customer audited me throughly. Of course it is shall requirement for standard and that can be fulfilled by third party auditors also.

But one thing is also important that all processes should be covered in audit which we have defined in our system
 
J

JaneB

#25
Re: Internal Audit

Our spec says that we have to perform internal audit at least once every year or as needed. Customers are visiting as rampantly and they also performing an audit to the company's quality system.

My concern is that, can we omit the usual internal audit since we were been audited by our customers? In this regard, how are we going to show to the third party auditors that we omit the traditional internal audit?
I wouldn't necessarily be against using customer audits as a part of your audit program (definitely not all), because it makes no sense to duplicate effort. But only on some strong provisos:
* the customer's auditors need to be suitably competent & knowledgeable in your system
* at your end, you (Audit Manager, whoever) needs to review the contents & findings & be satisfied that it covers the substance of the planned audit
* obviously, follow-up of actions.

I also wonder WHY you would have lots of customer audits? Currently I have an international client who's in a similar situation - lots of different customers wanting to audit them. Problems include: the various audits aren't consistent, don't seem to be good at auditing (not competent?),often get hold of quite the wrong end of the stick, often aren't properly briefed, let alone co-ordinated, and in fact have generated a lot of extra work for the client, who's now put a stop to it.

Audits coming from our customers shows an affirmative result
The purpose of audit isn't to seek 'affirmative' results. It's to work out whether your system is following planned arrangements, meets requirements, & is effectively maintained & implemented. Do your customer audits do all this? Or do they just focus (as is likely) on the particular bits of interest to them?

One of the purposes of ISO 9001 is having an external party (one) audit you. Seems a trifle counter-productive to me to have lots of external parties coming in.
 
Q

Quality Girl

#26
Hi - my concern would be how do you verify to an inspector that the personm conducting the audits was competent? You will have no training/qualification history for that auditor, so in the eyes of an inspector no control over the quality of the audit. With that in mind, I wuold ay no, you cannot allow these audits to replace your internals.
 
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