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Re: Internal Auditing - How can I audit my QMS independantly?
Depending on the nature of your industry and your networking abilities, is there another organization in your area that is in a similiar situation? If yes, could the two of you develop an agreement (with the 'blessing' from senior management) to audit each other where needed?
Depending on the nature of your industry and your networking abilities, is there another organization in your area that is in a similiar situation? If yes, could the two of you develop an agreement (with the 'blessing' from senior management) to audit each other where needed?
Re: Internal Auditing - How can I audit my QMS independantly?
One of the changes to ISO 19011:2011 does make an attempt at heling us understand more with regards to independence:
Independence: Auditors should be independent of the activity being audited wherever practicable, and should in all cases act in a manner that is free from bias and conflict of interest. For internal audits, auditors should be independent from the operating managers of the function being audited. Auditors should manitain objectivity throughout the audit process to ensure that the audit findings and conclusions are based only on the audit evidence.
For small organisations it may not be possible for auditors to be fully independent of the activity being audited, but every effort should be made to remove bias and encourage objectivity.
My emphasis in bold.
One of the changes to ISO 19011:2011 does make an attempt at heling us understand more with regards to independence:
Independence: Auditors should be independent of the activity being audited wherever practicable, and should in all cases act in a manner that is free from bias and conflict of interest. For internal audits, auditors should be independent from the operating managers of the function being audited. Auditors should manitain objectivity throughout the audit process to ensure that the audit findings and conclusions are based only on the audit evidence.
For small organisations it may not be possible for auditors to be fully independent of the activity being audited, but every effort should be made to remove bias and encourage objectivity.
My emphasis in bold.
Independence isn't seperation, it's a freedom from undue bias or influence.
The problem you've identified is one of the biggest HOR$E$HIT problems with 9001, on one hand it states that it can be used by any organization or any size and on the hand it limits organizations through the goofy "Thou shalt not audit thine old work" statement
Basically the "writers" are making a pre-judgement against smaller organization ethics
The problem you've identified is one of the biggest HOR$E$HIT problems with 9001, on one hand it states that it can be used by any organization or any size and on the hand it limits organizations through the goofy "Thou shalt not audit thine old work" statement
Basically the "writers" are making a pre-judgement against smaller organization ethics
I do not see this as a problem. I have understood that you conduct internal audits as well as contribute to the generation of QMS documentation.
You audit following process approach: once you have set documented procedure together mgmt and with approval of mgmt representative , you can check for compliance as well veirfy the effectiveness of your QMS processes.
The only thing that could be a problem is that you cannot audit your own work to assure impartiality. For example you cannot audit internal audit given that you conduct the internal audit.
Hope this helps
You audit following process approach: once you have set documented procedure together mgmt and with approval of mgmt representative , you can check for compliance as well veirfy the effectiveness of your QMS processes.
The only thing that could be a problem is that you cannot audit your own work to assure impartiality. For example you cannot audit internal audit given that you conduct the internal audit.
Hope this helps
