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Internal Auditing - How can I audit my QMS independently?

L

lennon121

#1
#1
I am running a Quality Management system of one person and have no other internal auditors trained, I am trying to get away from using external companies to carry out internal auditing, however, how can I audit my QMS independantly?

Is anyone else in a similar situation?
 
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howste

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#3
#3
Re: Internal auditing

lennon121 said:
I am running a Quality Management system of one person and have no other internal auditors trained, I am trying to get away from using external companies to carry out internal auditing, however, how can I audit my QMS independantly?

Is anyone else in a similar situation?
Click to expand...
You are the only person in the company? Then you can't audit independently.
 
Q

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#4
#4
Re: Internal Auditing - How can I audit my QMS independantly?

lennon121 said:
I am running a Quality Management system of one person and have no other internal auditors trained, I am trying to get away from using external companies to carry out internal auditing, however, how can I audit my QMS independantly?

Is anyone else in a similar situation?
Click to expand...
To ensure the impartiality , you shall be in two at least, or using external resources.
Are you sure to be ISO certified?
Sometimes when there is one man company, it is not usefull because you are the "system".:bigwave:
 
RoxaneB

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#5
#5
Re: Internal Auditing - How can I audit my QMS independantly?

Depending on the nature of your industry and your networking abilities, is there another organization in your area that is in a similiar situation? If yes, could the two of you develop an agreement (with the 'blessing' from senior management) to audit each other where needed?
 
Colin

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
#6
Re: Internal Auditing - How can I audit my QMS independantly?

One of the changes to ISO 19011:2011 does make an attempt at heling us understand more with regards to independence:

 Independence: Auditors should be independent of the activity being audited wherever practicable, and should in all cases act in a manner that is free from bias and conflict of interest. For internal audits, auditors should be independent from the operating managers of the function being audited. Auditors should manitain objectivity throughout the audit process to ensure that the audit findings and conclusions are based only on the audit evidence.

For small organisations it may not be possible for auditors to be fully independent of the activity being audited, but every effort should be made to remove bias and encourage objectivity.

My emphasis in bold.
 
B

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#7
#7
Re: Internal auditing

howste said:
You are the only person in the company? Then you can't audit independently.
Click to expand...
Let's not forget that the OP mentioned that this is a one many company. The requirement for auditors to not audit their own work would apply here, and everything in a one man company is that one man's work.
 
Randy

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
#8
Independence isn't seperation, it's a freedom from undue bias or influence.

The problem you've identified is one of the biggest HOR$E$HIT problems with 9001, on one hand it states that it can be used by any organization or any size and on the hand it limits organizations through the goofy "Thou shalt not audit thine old work" statement:horse:

Basically the "writers" are making a pre-judgement against smaller organization ethics
 
L

lennon121

#9
#9
Thanks for all your comments, it isn't a one man company, its a one man Quality team, thus when auditing doc control or audits, NCRs etc without others trained I couldn't independantly audit my own work. Thanks to Colin though, I haven't had time to read this new auditing standard!
 
Q

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#10
#10
lennon121 said:
Thanks for all your comments, it isn't a one man company, its a one man Quality team, thus when auditing doc control or audits, NCRs etc without others trained I couldn't independantly audit my own work. Thanks to Colin though, I haven't had time to read this new auditing standard!
Click to expand...
I do not see this as a problem. I have understood that you conduct internal audits as well as contribute to the generation of QMS documentation.
You audit following process approach: once you have set documented procedure together mgmt and with approval of mgmt representative , you can check for compliance as well veirfy the effectiveness of your QMS processes.
The only thing that could be a problem is that you cannot audit your own work to assure impartiality. For example you cannot audit internal audit given that you conduct the internal audit.
Hope this helps:bigwave:
 
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