Internal Auditing - How to make it useful?

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K

kgott

#13
Instead of focusing on procedures, you might want to focus on the objectives of the processes and of the work people do.

Some questions
- what are you trying to achieve? And why?
- how do you do that?
- how do you know it's the best way to do it?
- how do you know it's the right thing to do?


If you really want to ask about procedures, how about trying to verify if the procedure is really useful: - how the procedures/records and other documentation help you achieve what you want?
Marcelo; Just tying to find answers here but I reckon the conversation would go like this:

Me to designer - what are you trying to achieve? And why

Desinger: I'm trying to design a house so the people out the back can build it

Me: how do you do that?

Designer: I use xyz software program

Me: how do you know it's the best way to do it?

Designer; I dont but thats the way they want it done

Me: how do you know it's the right thing to do?

Designer: do you mind, I'm busy I gotta get this done today.

Also, would not a good answer also be:

Designer: Because this is how mangement have planned the process and I need to carry out work according the process management designed.

Reading the articles referred to in previous posts make my heart sink. I'm not arguing with them its just that I'm so for behind there is no point in me doing any internal audits because they will achieve nothing but thats one of my roles here.:frust:
 
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K

kgott

#14
How is one to audit when procedures are text based procedures perhaps a dozen pages long that say a lot but say nothing at all and barely represent the process? I see rubbish like this all the time.

At the opposite end of the scale they might be a six box flow chart that states the perfectly obvious.

How does one get on at the other end of the extreme tying to audit a process where there is very little or no documented description of the process at all??

Where is that head banging spot again??
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#15
How is one to audit when procedures are text based procedures perhaps a dozen pages long that say a lot but say nothing at all and barely represent the process? I see rubbish like this all the time.

At the opposite end of the scale they might be a six box flow chart that states the perfectly obvious.

How does one get on at the other end of the extreme tying to audit a process where there is very little or no documented description of the process at all??

Where is that head banging spot again??
Are you doing internal auditing or external auditing?
 

Marcelo

Inactive Registered Visitor
#16
Marcelo; Just tying to find answers here but I reckon the conversation would go like this:

Me to designer - what are you trying to achieve? And why

Desinger: I'm trying to design a house so the people out the back can build it

Me: how do you do that?

Designer: I use xyz software program

Me: how do you know it's the best way to do it?

Designer; I dont but thats the way they want it done

Me: how do you know it's the right thing to do?

Designer: do you mind, I'm busy I gotta get this done today.

Also, would not a good answer also be:

Designer: Because this is how mangement have planned the process and I need to carry out work according the process management designed.
If this happen:

1 - the auditte is not a good auditee

2 - the auditor is not a good auditor

Question and examples are like this - questions and example. You need to focus that, as an auditor, you are looking for audit evidence.

Questions like these might help you try to begin looking for audit evidence, but if you think the question, or answer, is so straight forwarded, I suggest you might rethink your audit strategy and your role as an auditor.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#18
Internal Audits are a check of the system and it components, can create OFIs and aid in improvement. But audits should not be the driver of improvement, although in many companies it is. A lot depends on the maturiety of the system. We all live in 2012 and know what it is like!!!

Why would you not want the internal audit to be one of the driver's for improvement?

8.5.1 lists audit results as one of the tools for continual improvement.
 
R

realchrisforce

#19
Internal Audits are a check of the system and it components, can create OFIs and aid in improvement. But audits should not be the driver of improvement, although in many companies it is. A lot depends on the maturiety of the system. We all live in 2012 and know what it is like!!!
this is absolutely true, an internal audit is really more to ensure that the improvements that have been implemented are still holding true. These audits won't necessarily catch where improvements can be made, that's more up to the individual project, dept. etc. heads to make based on the results of your internal audit.
I found, as a service tech supervisor, that once an audit was concluded to ensure that I took it in my own hands to ensure these nonconformity wouldn't occur again. As years went by, I found that I could become nearly perfect and begin to train my assistant to take over my role.
 
S

silentrunning

#20
I always try to keep things as simple as possible. When I am done with an audit I evaluate the process by asking:

1. Did I increase product quality?
2. Did I increase product value?
3. Did I reduce scrap?
4. Did I improve the Product Realization function?
5. Did I improve Customer Satisfaction?
6. The biggie - Did I make our company safer and more profitable?

If I can say yes to these, I feel it was a very successful Internal Audit.
 
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