Internal Auditing Inspiration - Getting volunteers to perform internal audits.

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
Define the auditor selection criteria (see post #5 above) complete with how conformity will be assessed.

Discuss these requirements with your internal auditors and gracefully accept any resignations.

Engage top management in selecting employees for auditor training.

Monitor auditor performance against the selection criteria.
 
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Murni Ahmad

Involved In Discussions
#12
Define the auditor selection criteria (see post #5 above) complete with how conformity will be assessed.

Discuss these requirements with your internal auditors and gracefully accept any resignations.

Engage top management in selecting employees for auditor training.

Monitor auditor performance against the selection criteria.
Thank you for the reply, my Top Management put whole responsibilities on me to train the auditors.

I have experience hiring other department HOD, which although good with the processes of another department, but finding that they have a problem in writing the audit finding and identifying what needs to be spotted, or how to take evidence of audit e.g no record of sighted service report, details of the report as evidence. Too many audit Jargon terms for them to understand as they have been depending on part-time auditors for more than 30 years.

End-up hiring my own staff to become internal auditors- including auditing own department (One is RA, auditing the QA, QA will audit other departments). On a daily basis, I will meet them and will have opportunities to share the auditing processes, without worrying to interrupt their daily task and schedule for meetings and discussions.

What is the standard practice for a company to train these internal auditors?
One day internal training? Outside training? let them read the standard themselves?
How to gauge that they can understand the standard and able to perform good auditing as well as having a systematic style of reporting, and finding that actually benefited towards the improvement of company management.

The only time I can gauge them is on the next round of audit which is next year, that if they are still working, well new blood seems to love job-hopping after 1-2 years.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
Hi there,

I am facing the same situation in choosing and training my internal auditors,

How do you increase the quality of your auditors, mind to share?

Thank you.
That is the question isn't it?? Its tough. You have to be selective, but your selection options are limited in the first place. You don't exactly have people lining up at the door to accept additional responsibilities (or I don't anyway. If you do, please get me a job lol).

When we were updating our training to ISO 9001/IATF 16949, i took a look at the auditors i already had. If they were people i had to remind multiple times they had an audit due, never wanted to start it until the due date, always had something come up and needed rescheduling; i didn't offer to upgrade their training. I only did that for the people who i was always able to count on. That took the job seriously and understood the reason we were doing it in the first place.

My team of internal auditors reduced drastically, but i am still able to get the same amount completed. I have not even been asked for an extension of the due date.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
Thank you for the reply, my Top Management put whole responsibilities on me to train the auditors.

I have experience hiring other department HOD, which although good with the processes of another department, but finding that they have a problem in writing the audit finding and identifying what needs to be spotted, or how to take evidence of audit e.g no record of sighted service report, details of the report as evidence. Too many audit Jargon terms for them to understand as they have been depending on part-time auditors for more than 30 years.

End-up hiring my own staff to become internal auditors- including auditing own department (One is RA, auditing the QA, QA will audit other departments). On a daily basis, I will meet them and will have opportunities to share the auditing processes, without worrying to interrupt their daily task and schedule for meetings and discussions.

What is the standard practice for a company to train these internal auditors?
One day internal training? Outside training? let them read the standard themselves?
How to gauge that they can understand the standard and able to perform good auditing as well as having a systematic style of reporting, and finding that actually benefited towards the improvement of company management.

The only time I can gauge them is on the next round of audit which is next year, that if they are still working, well new blood seems to love job-hopping after 1-2 years.
If you yourself have successfully completed lead auditor training then you may be competent enough to train your auditors.

You could issue the requirements from the standard to your internal auditors with a questionnaire for your auditors to complete before the course. You then have the students grade their work during the class.

You will probably find that it takes two days (14 to 16 hours) of classroom training to prepare your auditors for their first audit. This training would review and discuss the requirements of the standard, the auditing process and of the management system for about half the time and the other half will be spent in workshops so the students demonstrate their understanding. Closely supervise the first audits until you have evidence recorded of their competence.

A few half-day audits each month is better that a bigger audit less frequently.
 

Murni Ahmad

Involved In Discussions
#15
That is the question isn't it?? Its tough. You have to be selective, but your selection options are limited in the first place. You don't exactly have people lining up at the door to accept additional responsibilities (or I don't anyway. If you do, please get me a job lol).

When we were updating our training to ISO 9001/IATF 16949, i took a look at the auditors i already had. If they were people i had to remind multiple times they had an audit due, never wanted to start it until the due date, always had something come up and needed rescheduling; i didn't offer to upgrade their training. I only did that for the people who i was always able to count on. That took the job seriously and understood the reason we were doing it in the first place.

My team of internal auditors reduced drastically, but i am still able to get the same amount completed. I have not even been asked for an extension of the due date.
Hi Mikey,

Yes, it is the question I have been wondering. There have been no internal auditors since day 1 of this company more than 30 years ago.
I try to get the HOD as they have more understanding of the process more than the junior.
So far I have handled 2 teams of internal auditors, 1st year and 2nd year with a completely different team every year, and the training starts all over again. I don't think I can let them be independent by themselves yet.

So far, I have prepared an audit checklist for them, even let them see the reporting done last year. That's the best I can do. Hoping for them to improve next audit - next year.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
Hi Mikey,

Yes, it is the question I have been wondering. There have been no internal auditors since day 1 of this company more than 30 years ago.
I try to get the HOD as they have more understanding of the process more than the junior.
So far I have handled 2 teams of internal auditors, 1st year and 2nd year with a completely different team every year, and the training starts all over again. I don't think I can let them be independent by themselves yet.

So far, I have prepared an audit checklist for them, even let them see the reporting done last year. That's the best I can do. Hoping for them to improve next audit - next year.

If you have never really had any internal auditors, do you have anyone in your company that stands out as an option? Someone who like to find out how things work? Investigative personality (not sure thats a thing, but i'm going with it)?
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
Instead of HoDs may I suggest selecting and training mere mortals?

Managers have all kinds of ready-made excuses for ducking out of an audit.

Lastly, your control for checking if your auditors have prepared for their audit is to schedule a pre-audit review of the checklists they make for themselves
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#18
Instead of HoDs may I suggest selecting and training mere mortals?

Managers have all kinds of ready-made excuses for ducking out of an audit.

Lastly, your control for checking if your auditors have prepared for their audit is to schedule a pre-audit review of the checklists they make for themselves
Surely that never happens!!!
 

blackholequasar

Involved In Discussions
#19
Is there anything that prevents the same internal auditor from auditing the same process two years in a row? I imagine that having a limited 'volunteer' pool to draw from, perhaps others have encountered this? I also would like to think that if the auditor is able to continue being impartial that it wouldn't be an issue. I don't particularly see where this may be against any actual standards. That's the current issue we're having this year. When I came on, I audited several processes in 2019. Here rolls 2020 and I was only able to add one new auditor (with two retiring)…
 
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