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Internal Auditing within your Organizational Structure

Q

qualityboi

#1
We had two internal audit meetings cancelled by the MFG department (this is a very large department) to whom our department reports into. My first thought was to write a non-conformance for management commitment. However, the boss told me to lay off and let them re-schedule. It been a week and I have heard nothing. What should I do as an internal auditor, if anything?
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
We had two internal audit meetings cancelled by the MFG department (this is a very large department) to whom our department reports into. My first thought was to write a non-conformance for management commitment. However, the boss told me to lay off and let them re-schedule. It been a week and I have heard nothing. What should I do as an internal auditor, if anything?
Manufacturing needs to be considered. I agree, there really (in my opinion) isn't a non conformance, at least under Management Commitment. Elevate your concern, diplomatically, to the Top Management like the President or VP. At least let the Manager of manufacturing be aware that it could be escalated.

Use the "I feel" scenarios.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#3
What do your audit program procedures say?

Are you sure of the committment thing or is it just the path of least resistance?
 
#4
Why should they support the audit? What are you going to do for them? Or, put another way, why are you doing the audit, because some schedule and procedure says you have to?

I'm still amazed, after over 15 years of training internal auditors, that some non-quality folks are expected to 'get it', about audits! Why should they? Did you do anything to sit down and plan and prepare your audit to be of value (and I don't mean heading off a non-conformity from a CB auditor) to the Manufacturing management?

If any of the answers to the above questions is anything like 'no', don't know', 'why?' or 'ISO says so', then you need to do something to answer the questions in a proactive, positive, action oriented manner, to gain their trust and support for the audit program.

And then you need to deliver an audit result they can clearly articulate as having been of value to them - not what you think is beneficial, what they say it is!

Oh, this is not personal, just my observations of why internal audit systems fail (and let's face it, this is a failure) based on over 15 years of hearing and seeing the same things!
 
K

kdsaggi

#5
agreed with AndyN

The same thing is happening in my company also.

There is a rule for NCR that it should sent to Top Management after closing for final comments but last 9 year of my experience not a single NCR sent to Top Management. all NCRs saved with local Quality Head.

Manufacturing Head and Quality Head should not be friend in company.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Manufacturing Head and Quality Head should not be friend in company.
Why not?

Both groups or processes thereof are out for the same thing, to support the organization (company), to achieve customer satisfaction, to affect the bottom line ($$$). The mentality that continually puts everyone against one another annoys me. We (not they and me) all work for the same Company.

AndyN said:
Why should they support the audit? What are you going to do for them? Or, put another way, why are you doing the audit, because some schedule and procedure says you have to?
Because it will improve the business. To improve their processes.

If I remember correctly, the standard says something like: "...based upon importance..."

The fact that manufacturing may not be able to attend that specific date for the meeting, doesn't really mean that they don't want to have it, just based upon the importance they have rescheduled the time.

What I see here, in my opinion, is a clear case of lack of communication.
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#8
We had two internal audit meetings cancelled by the MFG department (this is a very large department) to whom our department reports into. My first thought was to write a non-conformance for management commitment. However, the boss told me to lay off and let them re-schedule. It been a week and I have heard nothing. What should I do as an internal auditor, if anything?
1. Did they give reason for cancellation ?
2. Do your procedure on 'Internal Audits' comment on the steps to carried out for deferred audits ?
 
Q

qualityboi

#9
Our audit procedures don't have reaction mechanisms built in for groups cancelling. We have been doing internal quality audits for 15 years with the same management, these "business professionals" have had countless presentaiton regarding certification requirements, benefits, etc, if they still don't know why they are being audited then they are pretty darn thick.

ISO Certification in our company has always been and always will be a market / customer driven initiative. A lot of quality professionals might think this is a bad thing, and it may be. Regardless of the reason or the value add capability, at one point a top executive decided to provide funding to achive and maintain certification even if the value add was the ability to sell into particular markets. No matter what the reason for "value add" you still have to do internal audits in this day and age to maintain certification. There is nothing going on where if management was tied up for 2 hrs in an audit that would affect production, its merely an inconvenience they don't want to deal with. Frankly I don't want to deal with it either.
I have decided to do nothing, let it lapse (as the ball is in their court for rescheduling and have the CB write it up if they even catch the fact that the quality plan is not being adhered to. All this from a company that has "heightened expectations" of an ASRP (what a joke). The positive I can take away is that I am still getting paid whether they do it or not and I have my butt covered through emails and archived outlook calendar cancellations as well as their "commitment" to reschedule...going on week two...I already escalated the issue to the corp quality manager...she hasn't done anything either.

My question is what would you do in this situation? (I have already made a decision) I am just curious to see what other covers would do. Moreover, do nothing, keep bugging the area, or keep trying to resell the benefits of an audit?
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#10
My audit spec allows the schedules to have ample room for flexibility. It allows me to audit one thing a little early, and another a little late and still be within spec.

Life happens. The fact is, audits don't have the same focus among production people. And managers are always busy; when something untoward is happening, it can be a good time to just lay low and get infrastructure work done. Or, I do what I call a bench audit: I look at records for the audit in that period. I plan upcoming audits.

It's important to not second guess management commitment. Scheduling is small fry. Fixing discovered problems = commitment in my book.
:2cents:
 
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