Internal Auditing without Internal Auditor Training

N

noboost4you

#1
Our sister company has their registration audit to ISO 9001:2000 coming up. Before then, we need to perform an Internal Audit. We will not be subcontracting for an Internal Auditor but rather have our MR from the parent company do the internal audit.

However, the MR does not have any formal training in regards to Internal Auditing. He has participated in every Internal Audit, Surveilance Audit, and Registration Audit for our parent company. I also do not have any formal training but I was responsible for implementing the program and also participated in every audit.

Will our sister company receive a NC based on lack of Internal Auditing Training Records? We will ensure a total and complete internal audit, but without the training records of that auditor.

Any tips or suggestions? At this time, it is too late for any formal off-site or on-site auditor training.

Thanks
 
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Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#2
What requirements does your QMS have for internal auditors? Look at what the standards requires and what your procedure requires.

Damage control: Do you have a grandfather clause? Does experience count in your procedure?

If not too late, hire a qualified 3rd party to do your internal audit.
 
Last edited:
#3
ISO 9001 does not require any special training for internal auditors. This has been discussed before here, and a search might get you a lot more information. However, 6.2.2 does require competence. One way to get competence is to do the job. If your MR is doing a good job of auditing, then I would say he is probably competent.
 
N

noboost4you

#5
I also have been referencing the ISO 19011-2004 Standard in regards auditing. Our MR is very competent. He is also our VP who runs the day to day operations. He has had formal training with ISO, but on the 1994 version.
 
#6
I also have been referencing the ISO 19011-2004 Standard in regards auditing. Our MR is very competent. He is also our VP who runs the day to day operations. He has had formal training with ISO, but on the 1994 version.
But it's not knowledge of the standards that will help - it's auditing to the 'process approach' which will be the focus of the CB auditor.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
I also have been referencing the ISO 19011-2004 Standard in regards auditing. Our MR is very competent. He is also our VP who runs the day to day operations. He has had formal training with ISO, but on the 1994 version.
Actually it's ISO 19011:2002, not 2004.....
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
This is what is in front of me:
ANSI/ISO/ASQ QE19011S-2004

Perhaps I only have a supplemental version to 2002?
What you have is this:

"Guidelines for quality and/or environmental management systems auditing - U.S. Version with supplemental guidance added."

It's the US version of ISO 19011. And I like it...;)

Stijloor.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#10
OK, got me there.........I only use and refer to the actual ISO/2002 version...it's the "international" one and the one that CB's use along with either Guides 62/66 or ISO 17021:2006. Also the 2002 version is the only one that is applicable to accredited auditor training courses.
 
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