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Internal Auditor Competency KPI

#1
Given that the documented process is mentioned in 7.2.3 Cl, it is necessary to define KPI(s) to measure the process. My question is what can be the best indicator that can include the requirements of this Cl?
 
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AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#2
There is a requirement to measure the performance of a process, not "documented process".

By "Documented process", it means a procedure. Documented process word is used to have flexibility in the approach of its documentation - such as a detailed procedure, flow chart, etc.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#3
Just because the standard calls it a process does not mean that it is a process of the QMS
Please see
4.4 Quality management system and its processes
4.4.1 The organization shall establish, implement, maintain and continually improve a quality management system, including the processes needed and their interactions, in accordance with the requirements of this International Standard.
The organization shall determine the processes needed for the quality management system and their application throughout the organization, and shall:


also remember
after the si Standard interpretations English IATF 16949:2016 Sanctioned Interpretations (SIs) #20 – issued in December 2020 , effective January 2021
the standard reads
5.1.1.2 Process effectiveness and efficiency
Top management shall review the effectiveness and efficiency of the quality management system to evaluate and improve their the organization’s quality management system.
 
#4
I think I did not express my meaning correctly. According to the point made to us by DQS, when the standard mentions "documented process", the inputs and outputs mentioned in that requirement must be mentioned in the turtle diagram of one (or more) of the organization's processes. (One of our auditors keeps repeating a sentence: You can mix the documented process but you should not miss it).
We are now asked to define indicators to monitor these cases.
 
#5
There is a requirement to measure the performance of a process, not "documented process".

By "Documented process", it means a procedure. Documented process word is used to have flexibility in the approach of its documentation - such as a detailed procedure, flow chart, etc.
I think what you mean is documented information, not the documented process.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Where is the use of a “turtle diagram” specified?

How do you verify that your auditors do a good job of:

A. Planning and preparing
B. Sampling and investigating
C. Recording the facts
D. Reporting the results

These actions may already verify auditor competence.

Whether the auditing is fulfilling its objectives in a different subject. Do you have top management’s objectives for your internal audit program? That would be a good place to start.
 
#7
Where is the use of a “turtle diagram” specified?

How do you verify that your auditors do a good job of:

A. Planning and preparing
B. Sampling and investigating
C. Recording the facts
D. Reporting the results

These actions may already verify auditor competence.

Whether the auditing is fulfilling its objectives in a different subject. Do you have top management’s objectives for your internal audit program? That would be a good place to start.
According to your points, in my opinion, holding a periodic exam can prove the competence of the auditors and the result of the auditors in this exam can be considered as KPI. what is your opinion?
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Yes, there shall be a process, but KPI might not be required. How?
When you combine sequence of "small" processes into one "bigger" process, let's call it "system process", you are not obliged to identify individual KPI for every "small" process. You identify KPI for "system process".
7.2.3 is about competence of internal auditors, but internal auditors are small part of organizational staff and we have to establish process, which has to ensure, that whole staff is competent and not only auditors. We have also trainers, product designers, FMEA team members, control plan team members, persons with authority to release product and delivery, process setup staff, staff involved in statistical process control. All of these groups have to have individual KPI? Only auditors because they have own clause 7.2.3? Answer is "No". Put them all in one sack and monitor KPI for process ensuring competence requirements are fulfilled and that's all.
Just press CTRL+F and search IATF 16949 for "documented process". I've counted 15. 3 of them could be merged in 1 process for human resources management, including competence of whole staff, competence of internal auditors and employee motivation. It's up to organization how system processes are established. Some combine them, some not, but all 15 have to be found somewhere there.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
A written examination may verify some knowledge.

But competence also includes natural abilities or attributes (per ISO 19011 perhaps) which you may already have used for recruiting volunteers to serve on the audit team.

...and let us not forget the necessary skills.

I had expected you to say that you used supervisory measures such as:
  • Reviewing the checklist for sufficiency per the audit objective.
  • Attending opening meetings or closing meetings
  • Follow up with auditee reps or the audit team leader
  • Reviewing audit reports
etc...

Until each auditor is verified as competent.
 
#10
Yes, there shall be a process, but KPI might not be required. How?
When you combine sequence of "small" processes into one "bigger" process, let's call it "system process", you are not obliged to identify individual KPI for every "small" process. You identify KPI for "system process".
7.2.3 is about competence of internal auditors, but internal auditors are small part of organizational staff and we have to establish process, which has to ensure, that whole staff is competent and not only auditors. We have also trainers, product designers, FMEA team members, control plan team members, persons with authority to release product and delivery, process setup staff, staff involved in statistical process control. All of these groups have to have individual KPI? Only auditors because they have own clause 7.2.3? Answer is "No". Put them all in one sack and monitor KPI for process ensuring competence requirements are fulfilled and that's all.
Just press CTRL+F and search IATF 16949 for "documented process". I've counted 15. 3 of them could be merged in 1 process for human resources management, including competence of whole staff, competence of internal auditors and employee motivation. It's up to organization how system processes are established. Some combine them, some not, but all 15 have to be found somewhere there.
Thanks for this interesting and practical view.
I've counted 20. Because in some clause a few words are between documented and process.
 
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