SBS - The Best Value in QMS software

Internal auditor independence

P

Pamela Tenney

#1
#1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My company recently underwent a preassessment audit. One of the elements we were written up on concerned auditor independence. I am the Quality Manager and Management Rep./Lead Auditor. The auditors I am using are my Receiving Inspector and the Document Control Specialist. I was told that since Document Control was under my jurisdiction, I could not have him audit quality/inspection.
4.17 states "audits shall be carried out by personnel independent of those having direct responsibility for the activity being audited." Although Document Control is my responsibility, D/C is not directly responisble for quality areas such as inspection (receiving through shipping), calibration, etc. I think it should be OK for him to audit these areas. Are there any thoughts on this issue? We are a company of approximately 60 people and finding those qualified, able and having time is limited.

What could I do to solve this problem?

------------------
 
Quickly Organize an Intelligent TDP from DISCUS
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
Marc

Marc

Fully vaccinated are you?
Staff member
Admin
#2
#2
The auditor is off base. If you use that logic everyone is under the company president so they're biased.

As I understand it, it's the independence of the specific auditor, not the auditor's boss. I see no reason why you can't audit your boss.

You cannot audit things you do. You can audit things others do that you do not do.
 
L

Laura M

#3
#3
I agree with Marc. I was Management Rep. I had 3 internal auditors working for me. A trained internal auditor from another area performed the audit of the Internal audit program, my collection of data for mgmt. review, and document control area (which was under the resp. of the Lead auditor.) Funny this should come up. I "inherited" an old school auditor that refused to work for me because she said it was not a unbiased situation....she thought I would give a "bad" performance review if she found N/C's with "my" quality system. We agreed to disagree for about 6 months, and she moved to another department. In the grand scheme of things, who better to audit than those most familiar with the program. As long as N/C's are objective, I think you have a good set up.

Laura
 
B

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
#5
Where did this come from all of a sudden? It seems to be the question of the week...list servs and all. Something must have pushed it out from under a bush....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A ISO 13485 - Internal Auditor Independence and Process Owners ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
V Internal Auditor Competency KPI IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
B Internal Auditor Competency - Product Auditors Internal Auditing 9
U Internal Auditor not trained but done Audit for some process Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
M Tips on preparing for IATF 16949 Internal Lead Auditor exam Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
S ISO 13485 Lead Auditor - Debate between our Quality Team and Regulatory Auditor - Internal Auditor Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 42
B Internal and external auditor competency to CSR's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
D Impartiality of Internal Auditor ISO 9001/13485 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
M IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency Internal Auditing 7
C Recommendations for UK-based ISO 13485 internal auditor training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
A External Auditor issue with Internal Audits Internal Auditing 7
Q Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
S IATF 16949: Is "Certified" Internal Auditor mandatory? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S Internal Auditing for API Spec Q1 - auditor qualification requirements Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 6
J Your opinion on the better training org for IATF16949 Internal auditor and Lead Auditor IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Q Internal Auditor Training requirements for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
E Informational I would like to get some Internal Auditor Training Internal Auditing 31
Q What is the difference between normal and licensed internal auditor? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 9
J IATF 16949 CAR - Internal Auditor Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
Q AS 9100D internal auditor training requirements Internal Auditing 16
A Other Discussion Boards - Internal Auditor Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 5
E Online training for an internal auditor to AS9120B AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
Q Internal Auditor Trainer's Requirement Internal Auditing 4
D IATF 16949 - Internal Auditor Training/Certification Requirements Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 2
R Internal Auditor vs. Public Accountant - Accounting Student Needing Help Career and Occupation Discussions 4
C IATF 16949 Cl. - 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
C IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 39
Q IATF 16949 Cl. 7.2.3 - Internal Auditor Competency and Records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
R Internal Auditor auditing Internal Audit Procedure (AS9100) Internal Auditing 18
Q How can an Internal Auditor Trainer's Competency be Evaluated - IATF 16949 Cl. 7.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
H ISO/IATF Internal Auditor Recommendations For Manufacturer In California, USA Internal Auditing 3
Casana 2nd Party and Internal Auditor Qualifications & Training IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
P Problem with IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.3 Requirements (Internal Auditor Competency) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B Competency of Trainer for Internal Auditor Training (IATF 16949) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
C ISO 13485:2016 - Internal Auditor Training vs. Lead Auditor Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 9
J Dinged on Internal Audits for supervising an auditor I was training Internal Auditing 10
M Internal Auditor --> Licence needed? Internal Auditing 6
V Internal Auditor Training Documents and PPT Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
V Internal Auditor Training Documents and PPT Internal Auditing 3
V Certified Internal auditor is necessary? ISO 9001 requirement? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 4
D Can the Plant Manager be our ISO Representative and an Internal Auditor? Internal Auditing 26
M ISO 13485 Audit Questions - Internal Auditor Training and other Requirements ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 10
M Questions about AS9100 Internal Auditor Training AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
R Can a external auditor raise a finding that is already identified in Internal Audit ? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
P Can internal ISO 17025 Auditor conduct ISO 9001 Audit ISO 17025 related Discussions 7
P Internal Auditor Training - Audit exercises Internal Auditing 5
D Training Material for Internal Auditor Requirements Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
U TS16949 Internal Auditor Training - Is On-line training OK? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
F Internal Audit quiz - Auditor Qualifications and Requirements Internal Auditing 34

Similar threads

Top Bottom