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Internal Auditor Qualifications - TS 16949 Clause 8.2.2.5

#11
Re: Internal Auditor Qualifications

...and 12 months of internal audits and performance data as it was written in 3rd edition of "Rules", but I do not have current 4th edition, so maybe someone corrects me.
I don't believe this is correct. 12 months of internal audits? No. 12 months of performance, yes.
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#12
Re: Internal Auditor Qualifications

I don't believe this is correct. 12 months of internal audits? No. 12 months of performance, yes.
Yes, misunderstanding... in brief the organization shall demonstrate that it is working under ISO TS since one year at least. Clearly in this year the organization could think to audit their processes vs ISO TS requirements, perform product audit and mfg audit, in addition to other items to claim for the application. The audit plan is a long journey and it is clear that it cannot be completed in a short time...
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#13
5.14 Letter of conformance
[...]
a) the client is able to supply the information required for the Stage 1 readiness review (see section 5.6) including internal and external performance data and one full cycle of internal audits and management review, but not twelve (12) months of internal audits and performance data,
"It wasn't me" :D

If you do not have enough "courage" to not determine "internal audit" as one of your QMS processes, so you do need 12 months performance data for this process as well. I am sorry. :D
 
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M

Michael Drechsel

#14
Please do not forget to consider existing CSRs (Customer Specific Requirements) regarding auditor competence. For example: if you supply to Volkswagen, this OEM requires a VDA 6.3 (process audit) qualification for the internal auditors.
 
R

Rich53214

#15
How do you Test for Competence for Internal Auditors per the TS16949 Standard? Section 6.2.2?

Thanks
Rich
 
C

cbhigdon3

#17
Interesting subject, as our organization received a minor finding because I, as the director of quality, didn't produce my qualifications as an internal auditor at the time of our TS16949 audit. In spite of my nearly 20 years of experience in the field, the auditor said that, unless I had some form of objective evidence to the contrary, I wasn't qualified or competent to perform internal audits.

As we run work primarily for GM, I explained to the auditor that I have been trained in the "Core Tools, including PPAP and other reference manuals including APQP, MSA, SPC, and FMEA and GM Customer Specifics, as applicable" - per the IATF GM Customer Specific Requirements.
For objective evidence attached to our corrective action, I included some training material that I had a few years ago and a copy of my six sigma greenbelt certification that was automotive focused (and, accordingly, included items such as PPAP, APQP, MSA, SPC, and FMEA). I would have thought that this would be more than sufficient in terms of evidence.

The auditor's response in our status update letter was:
“Please refer to GM Customer Specific Requirements (Revision January 2015) for Internal Auditors (section 4.1.10) and update the evidence sent to support the corrective action submitted to address NC
8.2.2.


At this point, I'm sort of at a loss for how to respond other than filing a complaint with our registrar...
 
#18
Interesting subject, as our organization received a minor finding because I, as the director of quality, didn't produce my qualifications as an internal auditor at the time of our TS16949 audit. In spite of my nearly 20 years of experience in the field, the auditor said that, unless I had some form of objective evidence to the contrary, I wasn't qualified or competent to perform internal audits.

As we run work primarily for GM, I explained to the auditor that I have been trained in the "Core Tools, including PPAP and other reference manuals including APQP, MSA, SPC, and FMEA and GM Customer Specifics, as applicable" - per the IATF GM Customer Specific Requirements.
For objective evidence attached to our corrective action, I included some training material that I had a few years ago and a copy of my six sigma greenbelt certification that was automotive focused (and, accordingly, included items such as PPAP, APQP, MSA, SPC, and FMEA). I would have thought that this would be more than sufficient in terms of evidence.

The auditor's response in our status update letter was:
?Please refer to GM Customer Specific Requirements (Revision January 2015) for Internal Auditors (section 4.1.10) and update the evidence sent to support the corrective action submitted to address NC
8.2.2.


At this point, I'm sort of at a loss for how to respond other than filing a complaint with our registrar...
I'd be inclined to challenge the finding! If you've posted the content of the nc, it's clearly incomplete and, given the details you've provided, the auditor appears NOT to understand...
 
C

cbhigdon3

#19
Here's the actual language from the non-conformance:

Requirement:
"The organization shall have internal auditors who are qualified to audit the requirements of this Technical Specification."

"Newest Internal Auditor (qualifications
and competency) records of training were not available for review."

So in our corrective action, I stated that I would review my Six Sigma Greenbelt and Blackbelt training material (automotive-focused and included application of core tools PPAP, Control Plans, SPC, FMEA development, MSA) and provide my certification (I had to take a rigorous exam for each) as objective evidence of internal auditor qualification/competence.

Again, at a loss...
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#20
I am sure the guy wants to see a "certificate of completion" which says you completed an "internal auditor" course. You can probably find a certificate on the internet.

While, as Director of Quality, you may not be qualified to do internal audits, you are qualified to fire his behind. Good luck.
 
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