Internal Auditor Qualifications - TS16949:2002

R

Randy Lefferts

#1
Internal Auditor Qualifications, TS16949:2002 ?

I am curious as to how others are handling the internal auditor qualification? In the past we have just sent our auditors to training courses offered by our CB.

With the introduction of TS16949:2002, my company is looking at other ways to support an auditors qualifications. In ISO 10011-2, Qualification criteria for quality systems auditors, there is no requirement of a formal training course to qualify auditors.

Since all of our auditors had attended QS9000 training by our CB, it was suggested that we couple that training with in-house training on the gap analysis of QS-TS.

Basically, we would train, in-house, the gap analysis that was performed, with a focus on the process aspect and combine that with our prior QS9000 auditor training.

Would this work? How is everyone else handling this (aside from spending $1000 per auditor to send them to the training.)
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
C

C Emmons

#2
Well, my company is ISO however, I attended a LA Class and based on that training conducted a one day internal audit class 10 hours to train the auditors - did class room exercises, case studies based on our business - etc. Gave an exam at the end and issued an certificate qualifying them as an internal auditor. Our registrar is fine with that. (It will also include a supervised audit for there first round.)
 
#3
Randy L,
I am setting up a similar process for our company. Our auditors have been trained for internal (QS) by Plexis. I will use that training plus their existing knowledge of the processes to qualify them as TS auditors.
 
#4
Training for TS

The requirement is you have trained internal auditors. There has never been a requirement for this to be done through any particular means. It is quire acceptable for you to take competent QS internal auditors and put them through an update class, created by you, to upgrade them to TS.

Depending on where you are ‘up north’, I know there are several sources for training if you want outside training. The MTEC centers in Gaylord, TC and Harrison often hold classes, and might be a good place to start. [I am not affiliated with them in any manner] If you need additional information, let me know privately.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Why not ask your registrar what might be appropriate and acceptable to them?

Isn't all you really need to do is to be able to show competence of your IA's and the effectiveness of your IA program?
 
M

M Greenaway

#6
6.2.2.2 Training
The organization shall establish and maintain documented procedures for identifying training needs and achieving competence of all personnel performing activities affecting product quality. Personnel performing specific assigned tasks shall be qualified, as required with particular attention to the satisfaction of customer requirements.
NOTE 1 This applies to all employees affecting quality at all levels of the organization.
NOTE 2 An example of the customer specific requirements is the application of digitized mathematically based data.

8.2.2.5 Internal auditor qualification
The organization shall have internal auditors who are qualified to audit the requirements of this Technical Specification( see 6.2.2.2).
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#7
Thanks everyone

Thanks everyone for your responses.

C Emmons - That is one way we are considering handling the training since we have someone that is going through LA training. Thank you for your input.

Sam - That is exactly what we were thinking. Thanks.

db - Again, exactly what we are thinking. In the past, it was just as "easy" to send someone for the QS auditor training but there comes a point where you are just spending money/time needlessly. We are located in Boyne City, about 25 minutes from Gaylord. The MTEC centers would be a viable option should we go that route. Thank you for your suggestion.

Again, thanks all for responding. At least we know we are on the right track in our thinking.
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#8
Registrar suggestion...

Randy said:

Why not ask your registrar what might be appropriate and acceptable to them?

Isn't all you really need to do is to be able to show competence of your IA's and the effectiveness of your IA program?
Part of that "problem" is that our registrar tends to "suggest" ways that are not necessarily in the best interests of the company. I am not going to open up that can of worms in this forum but suffice it to say, we are better off formulating our own "plan of attack."

Thanks for responding!
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#9
Re: Re: Training for TS

Jim Wade said:

Dave - or anyone

Just out of interest (I don't know ISO / TS 16949 at all) - exactly how is that requirement worded?

rgds Jim
As a follow-up to M Greenaway's response:

ISO 10011-2 contains the qualification criteria for quality systems auditors. In a nutshell, the qualifications are that the auditors demonstrate competence. It also lists educational requirements, training requirements (none of which state that the training must come from an outside source), experience as well as personal attributes of the auditor (open-minded, mature, etc.)

There is not a requirement that states you must be "certified" from an outside source to be an auditor. However, our registrar has made statements that have led us to believe there "was" a requirement somewhere, thus my post. ;)
 
M

M Greenaway

#10
Randy

I have also heard this suggestion, yet the text of the standard does not mandate a certified external qualification of any kind, however demonstrating competence in the requirements of TS16949 might be difficult to otherwise achieve.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Casana 2nd Party and Internal Auditor Qualifications & Training IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
F Internal Audit quiz - Auditor Qualifications and Requirements Internal Auditing 34
B Internal Auditor Qualifications - TS 16949 Clause 8.2.2.5 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
J Where do you define Internal Auditor qualifications? Internal Auditing 9
K Internal Auditor Qualifications ? ISO13485 vs. ISO9001 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
C Internal Auditor Qualifications? Small Company ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
A AS9100 Internal Auditor Training and Qualifications Internal Auditing 8
A TS16949 Recertification Training - Internal Auditor Qualifications Internal Auditing 4
G AS9100 & ISO 9001 Internal Audits (-+) - Auditor Qualifications AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 26
S Internal Auditor Qualifications - What qualifications should I include? Internal Auditing 49
A Internal auditor qualifications for product audits - TS 16949 Internal Auditing 16
F Seeking: Examples/Samples - How to document internal auditor qualifications Internal Auditing 9
T GM Customer Specific Requirements - Internal Auditor Qualifications Customer and Company Specific Requirements 4
T Internal Auditor training - Qualifications needed to train internal auditors? Internal Auditing 13
Q Registered Quality Internal Auditor Qualifications - What needed? Audits? Experience? Professional Certifications and Degrees 5
B Internal Auditor Competency - Product Auditors Internal Auditing 9
U Internal Auditor not trained but done Audit for some process Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
M Tips on preparing for IATF 16949 Internal Lead Auditor exam Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
S ISO 13485 Lead Auditor - Debate between our Quality Team and Regulatory Auditor - Internal Auditor Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 17
B Internal and external auditor competency to CSR's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
D Impartiality of Internal Auditor ISO 9001/13485 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
M IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency Internal Auditing 7
C Recommendations for UK-based ISO 13485 internal auditor training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
A External Auditor issue with Internal Audits Internal Auditing 7
QAQT Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
S IATF 16949: Is "Certified" Internal Auditor mandatory? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S Internal Auditing for API Spec Q1 - auditor qualification requirements Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 6
J Your opinion on the better training org for IATF16949 Internal auditor and Lead Auditor IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Q Internal Auditor Training requirements for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
E Informational I would like to get some Internal Auditor Training Internal Auditing 31
Q What is the difference between normal and licensed internal auditor? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 9
J IATF 16949 CAR - Internal Auditor Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
A ISO 13485 - Internal Auditor Independence and Process Owners ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
Q AS 9100D internal auditor training requirements Internal Auditing 16
A Other Discussion Boards - Internal Auditor Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 5
E Online training for an internal auditor to AS9120B AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
Q Internal Auditor Trainer's Requirement Internal Auditing 4
D IATF 16949 - Internal Auditor Training/Certification Requirements Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 2
R Internal Auditor vs. Public Accountant - Accounting Student Needing Help Career and Occupation Discussions 4
C IATF 16949 Cl. - 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
C IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 39
Q IATF 16949 Cl. 7.2.3 - Internal Auditor Competency and Records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
R Internal Auditor auditing Internal Audit Procedure (AS9100) Internal Auditing 18
Q How can an Internal Auditor Trainer's Competency be Evaluated - IATF 16949 Cl. 7.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
H ISO/IATF Internal Auditor Recommendations For Manufacturer In California, USA Internal Auditing 3
P Problem with IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.3 Requirements (Internal Auditor Competency) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B Competency of Trainer for Internal Auditor Training (IATF 16949) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
C ISO 13485:2016 - Internal Auditor Training vs. Lead Auditor Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
J Dinged on Internal Audits for supervising an auditor I was training Internal Auditing 10
M Internal Auditor --> Licence needed? Internal Auditing 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom