Internal Auditor Review Training

Q

Quality

#1
I am a newly trained Lead Auditor who is trying to repair the QMS as best as possible by the new audit since it is unlikely we will have a new QM by then.

Our company hasn't done internal audits in two years (calm down, I know :mad:). The last two Quality Managers have not enforced them, and with our first registration renewal audit just 10 weeks away, they still need to be done.

I'd like to put our internal auditors through a review, and also add some new ones since I have a few who don't want to do it anymore (why would they? It hasn't been done in 2 years).

What would be some things I would need to do for the review?

:thanks:
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
create a summarized version of the original auditor training? If they have done no audits in the past two years, I seriously doubt they have retained much. Try to schedule your training and audits together? Maybe have more but smaller classes, 1/2 day refresher, 1/2 day auditing? That way, they'll use the skills right away while they are fresh. Then, make sure that you get them back out to audit soon both to keep the knowledge fresh and to finish up your audits.

good luck
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
I have moved this thread to this forum, since it is regarding Auditing.

Quality said:
I am a newly trained Lead Auditor who is trying to repair the QMS as best as possible by the new audit since it is unlikely we will have a new QM by then.

Our company hasn't done internal audits in two years (calm down, I know ). The last two Quality Managers have not enforced them, and with our first registration renewal audit just 10 weeks away, they still need to be done.

I'd like to put our internal auditors through a review, and also add some new ones since I have a few who don't want to do it anymore (why would they? It hasn't been done in 2 years).

What would be some things I would need to do for the review?
1. Review the applicable standard (ISO, TS...)

2. Review previous CB's findings, if any

3. Review existing Policies and Procedures to include the Internal Audit Procedure.

4. Review, if any, existing Management Reviews

These are just some of what I would review.
 
Q

Quality

#4
create a summarized version of the original auditor training? If they have done no audits in the past two years, I seriously doubt they have retained much. Try to schedule your training and audits together? Maybe have more but smaller classes, 1/2 day refresher, 1/2 day auditing? That way, they'll use the skills right away while they are fresh. Then, make sure that you get them back out to audit soon both to keep the knowledge fresh and to finish up your audits.

good luck
I wasn't at the company when they did the original training. I'd love to have those materials.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
I have moved this thread to this forum, since it is regarding Auditing.



1. Review the applicable standard (ISO, TS...)

2. Review previous CB's findings, if any

3. Review existing Policies and Procedures to include the Internal Audit Procedure.

4. Review, if any, existing Management Reviews

These are just some of what I would review.
Hello Quality,

You know what works even better? (If you're up to it...)
Take your internal auditors "by the hand", and conduct a real life "practice" audit. A great application of the adult learning principle. Because you don't have much time...that would work the best.

Good Luck.

Stijloor.
 
Last edited:
W

Wayne G.

#6
Coury's points make sense. You are forced to jump in with both feet. Do the minimum that is required.
Moving forward, SteelMaiden's makes some very good points for ongoing training. I have a team of 7 auditors, all with varing degrees of auditing competence. We audit 3 standards (TS16949, ISO14001,OHSAS18001), with each monthly audit lasting 2 days. The first half of day 1 is auditor training, sometimes using guideance from ISO 19011, videos, speakers, ppt's, etc. Because this is the only time I can get my audit team together in the same room, at the same time, it is very effective, interactive and fun.
 
Q

Quality

#7
Good ideas. One of my auditors used to be a Director of Quality at his old employer. I also have another who used to be a Baldridge auditor. Those are two (very welcome) additions to my team.

Other than that, I have 1 auditor who is on 3rd shift (everyone else is 1st) who will be very limited with what he is able to audit (plus, his boss wants him removed as an internal auditor). 1 auditor will be overseas until our registration audit. Then I have the remaining 5 auditors who I am wondering if 3 of them will stick around or not.

So, hopefully, I can remind them of how neat auditing can be (like playing detective if a conflict comes up), and how important it is that we have internal auditors. They are the ones who check to make sure we do what we say we do.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#8
So, you have a couple of highly (we hope) competent people, put them to use. Just because you are in charge of making it happen doesn't mean that you have to do it all. Let your folks with lots of experience help in training. As for the lone auditor from 3rd shift...does he want to continue? Your managers/supervisors need to understand that it is they who need to encourage their people to become/stay with the audit program. If they are not encouraging this, then they probably need some remedial training themselves. We have found that auditing other areas has been a great tool in employee development, and has been part of the deciding factor in promotions because it allows an employee to see and understand what they are getting into.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#9
I am a newly trained Lead Auditor who is trying to repair the QMS as best as possible by the new audit since it is unlikely we will have a new QM by then.

Our company hasn't done internal audits in two years (calm down, I know :mad:). The last two Quality Managers have not enforced them, and with our first registration renewal audit just 10 weeks away, they still need to be done.

I'd like to put our internal auditors through a review, and also add some new ones since I have a few who don't want to do it anymore (why would they? It hasn't been done in 2 years).

What would be some things I would need to do for the review?

:thanks:

That is a lot to get done in 10 weeks, but you have received some good advice in this thread.

Option 2 is to hire one of the consultants on this Cove to provide some trainng and assist in rebuilding your audits. Then, after your audit, you can begin to take over again. I would be willing to assist, and I am sure there are other consultants here who would as well.
 
#10
I'm thinking that if there's been no auditing done for 2 years (just how did your registrar allow them to do that....), then you might just as well start from scratch.:mg:

Here's my suggestion. Schedule a class on site. Invite your two 'preferred' people and select another 3 or 4, one each from the other shifts (3 shifts, right?). You have an opportunity here to select some other candidates, since you may not want to use them this time around. You've got to define some auditor competencies, so take a look at who's got the right kind of experience of the business, credible with management etc.:yes:

Have your selected auditor course provider run an audit 'lab' - an actual on site 'for real' audit of your system, using your newly (re)trained auditors. Use these findings to 'offer' to the registrar and work on those in management review etc.:yes:

Of course, I've done this many times with my clients, so I'd like to offer my services, just as Helmut suggested.........:notme:;):lol:
 
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