Internal Auditor Training - Does TS 16949 Require Formal Training or Certification?

[ISOPete]

I am ISO Facitlitator for the company where I work. We are currently moving from QS9000 to TS16949. I have conducted QS audits in the past. Will I be required by the TS standard to recieve formal training ( in other words a seminar) ?
Thanks.
Pete

 

[Teri - 2011]

What are your customer requirements? I think they play alot into what and how much training you need.

 

[db]

What are your customer requirements? I think they play alot into what and how much training you need.

VERY important! Ford, for example has very specific requirements for TS internal auditors. I was a trainer for the AIAG, but still had to attend "formal" training because I could not prove I was "trained" in Core Tools (even though I taught them).

 

[ISOPete]

We do not supply directly to the big three. Without going into great detail our customers are in the trucking industry such as Navistar, Mack etc. I have seen no specific requirements from them.
Pete

 

[db]

Okay, so barring any customer specific stuff, you still have to meet 8.2.2.5. And how you show qualification and competence is basically up to you. As an auditor, I would ask how you know you are competent and qualified?

 

[RoxaneB]

Let your query do the work for you!

If you try a search here in the Cove on "auditor competence", oodles of threads come up...

Metrics to evaluate
Job descriptions
Qualifications (note ISO 9001 focus)
Qualifications (TS2)
TS2 Auditors – refresher training
Tests

 

[Teri - 2011]

We do not supply directly to the big three. Without going into great detail our customers are in the trucking industry such as Navistar, Mack etc. I have seen no specific requirements from them.
Pete

We are not a direct supplier to the big three, either. However, one of our customers has specific requirements for TS internal auditors, as well as supplier auditors,,,,,, btw,, this was found during our pre-assessment audit. If none of your customers has anything, I would ask the same, how do you determine internally what your requirements are and how do you say auditors are competent?

 

[ISOPete]

UP to this point I have ben doing a lot of reading on how to process audit. There is plenty of material out there if you just go look for it. Don't get me wrong....seminars are nice but if books hold the same info what is the difference. As long as formal training is not a customer requirement though.
Pete

 

[Jeff Frost]

During both a TS 16949 Gap Analysis by our registrar and also during our registrars AS9100 surveillance audit the issue of qualification and competence of both internal auditors and the auditor trainer were questioned. I had the suspicion early on that this question would become an issue once ISO 19011 was issued and I was right.

The best way to handle this would be to develop a list of internal auditor qualification requirements. We developed them from ISO/AS/TS standards requirements for auditors, guidance/requirements found in ISO 19011, IAF and IATF Rule 2, internal audit procedure and customer requirements. Your auditors should then be evaluated during either mock or real audit just like the big boys do during RAB auditor certification.

This evaluation must be conducted by a qualified individual, i.e. one who has attended an RAB-accredited internal auditor or lead auditor course. This worked for us and our registrar was happy.

One final note we just had DoD and Two aerospace primes audit us and they also asked for the same.

 

[MikeL]

Another money spinner for training organisations

The standard is quite clear that you determine what competencies are required (unless your customer has other, expensive ideas).

If a customer said I needed to send all internal auditors on a course I would ask them when how they would like to pay for it AMEX, Diners or Visa. Same suggestion I make about Powerway.

If you want your auditors to get a three inch thick training manual and more questions than they started with send them to an "accredited" course.

If an external auditor asks what training and competencies your internal auditors require they shouldn't be telling you the answer but wanting you to tell them how you have decided to approach this issue.

My rant of the day I'm afraid.