Internal Auditor Training - How often should an internal auditor be trained?

Johnny Quality

Involved In Discussions
#11
Sorry, I'm ignorant on AS 9100 but I'm going to assume it has a clause against auditor competency and how it should be verified.

If my assumption is true, how do you verify auditor competency? How do you know Mr ABC is competent?
 
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mattador78

Involved In Discussions
#12
Sorry, I'm ignorant on AS 9100 but I'm going to assume it has a clause against auditor competency and how it should be verified.

If my assumption is true, how do you verify auditor competency? How do you know Mr ABC is competent?
No real difference to 9001 just 2 notes in bold text and none against the auditor competency
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#13
It is best if you tell us what exactly the auditor wrote.

What exact clause of the standard did the auditor say you were not conforming with? Are you in violation of a clause of AS9100 - if so which one(s)? Or are you violating one of your company's internal requirements?

Look at 7.2 and 9.2 -- are you compliant?
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
Hii all,

Please help me to close below issue with Root cause and Corrective action.
Mr ABC is not trained on Internal Audit and not having Auditor certificate but he has done the audit of QMS/MR...

What would be Root Cause :
Corrective action :
In the finding I see no evidence of incompetence. Why did you accept this finding as a nonconformity? Does your internal auditing procedure require that audits are assigned only to trained auditors?
 

John Predmore

Trusted Information Resource
#15
I have a copy of AS9100D. It reads the same as ISO 9001. Competence or training are not mentioned in clause 9.2.2 about Internal Audits.
The section under Resources: People includes 7.2 Competence
b. ensure that these persons are competent on the basis of appropriate education, training, or experience;
c. where applicable, take actions to acquire the necessary competence, and evaluate the effectiveness of the actions taken;
d. retain appropriate documented information as evidence of competence.
NOTE: Consideration should be given for the periodic review of the necessary competence.
NOTE: Applicable actions can include, for example, the provision of training to, the mentoring of, or the re-assignment of currently employed persons; or the hiring or contracting of competent persons.

In summary, the requirement of people is for competence. Training is one of three ways to "ensure" competence. Records of competence are required (item d.). AS9100 adds to ISO9001 the bold text about periodic review, but that is worded as a recommendation not a requirement.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#16
Hii all,

Please help me to close below issue with Root cause and Corrective action.
Mr ABC is not trained on Internal Audit and not having Auditor certificate but he has done the audit of QMS/MR...

What would be Root Cause :
Corrective action :
The standards permit us to evaluate personnel's competency without prescriptive detail such as certificates, passing courses, time on the job, etc. The standards are clear that the organization is expected to ensure competency, a term that has been discussed many times here in the Cove.

If none of that was done for Mr. ABC, the organization needs to determine why, and address the process shortcomings so there is not a further example of "unqualified" person doing critical tasks they are assigned to.

I was not present for the audit, so I would be of little use in identifying root cause for you, but The Cove has a number of helpful attachments in 5 Why analysis, which is among the most basic of methods to arrive at root cause.
 
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