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Internal Auditor - What is required to have someone qualified as an internal auditor?

A

Achemd

#1
What is required to have someone qualified as an internal auditor?
Do they have to attend an outside auditor training course?

Please advise
Thanks Achemd.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Internal Auditor - what is required to qualify?

Requirements are determined by your program, according to what performance is desired from an auditor.

Typical minimum is an auditing course for the applicable standard.

Other possible qualifications are education levels, certification in ASQ, a period of experience, and others as they might apply.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: Internal Auditor - what is required to qualify?

There is one important pre-requisite for internal auditor candidates...
(You may want to pre-qualify your candidate auditors)

Good "people" skills (communication and interacting with people)

I have met many internal and external auditors. They were "qualified" but had no "people" skills whatsoever. I believe that the success of an auditor depends on how well she/he interacts with the auditees.

I'm sure you will hear from some "resident experts" here at The Cove.

Good Luck with auditor selection.

Stijloor.
 
F

fireonce

#4
Re: Internal Auditor - what is required to qualify?

Being trained and passing the exam of internal audit.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Re: Internal Auditor - what is required to qualify?

Being trained and passing the exam of internal audit.
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Internal auditing is a role the same as a machine operator, a supervisor, engineer or any other you can think of.

Every person who plays a role in the system and/ or who can effect customer satisfaction must be competent.

Training and passing a test do not show competence, all they show is that some time was spent sitting and hopefully listening along with a bit of memory retention and regurgitation of material presented.

Application of what was taught that can show the ability to do what is required, when required and how required is what must happen.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Re: Internal Auditor - what is required to qualify?

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Internal auditing is a role the same as a machine operator, a supervisor, engineer or any other you can think of.

Every person who plays a role in the system and/ or who can effect customer satisfaction must be competent.

Training and passing a test do not show competence, all they show is that some time was spent sitting and hopefully listening along with a bit of memory retention and regurgitation of material presented.

Application of what was taught that can show the ability to do what is required, when required and how required is what must happen.

I wholeheartedly agree. But regrettably, that's how most auditors (internal/external) are "approved." Competence is defined as the ability to apply skills and knowledge.

Trained does not mean competent. That's why training records as "proof" of training are worthless. Only when the auditor has effectively and efficiently demonstrated her/his abilities over a predetermined amount of time, I would consider the auditor competent.

Allow me to repeat what I stated in an earlier post: PEOPLE skills should be a pre-requisite for any auditor.

Happy Father's Day.

Stijloor.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
Re: Internal Auditor - what is required to qualify?

Allow me to repeat what I stated in an earlier post: PEOPLE skills should be a pre-requisite for any auditor.
:agree1:Right on. The ability to communicate, as well. Communication, IMO is as important as knowledge of the specific requirements being audited. Effective communication is crucial for effective auditing.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
Re: Internal Auditor - What is required to have someone qualified as an internal audi

Auditors, internal or external, it doesn't matter which, should be able to display those attributes and skills that are necessary in order to be a good auditor. In fact the definition of competence is "the demonstrated personal attributes and demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skills" (3.14, ISO 19011:2002) and the definition of auditor is "person with the competence to conduct an audit" (3.8, ISO 19011:2002)

A major problem effecting a vast majority of presently existing management systems (and compounded by the auditors reviewing them, myself included) is the horribley poor state of the "competency" processes we sign off on. Very, very few organizations actually do what is required, but because "we" have tolerated sub-standard meeting of requirements we are now in the state of "sit in a class, pass a test" wham, bam, thank-you-mam, auditors.

Back on point, the attributes are those things that are layed out in ISO 19011:2002, clause 7.2 listed below and from where we get those necessary "people skills":

Auditors should possess personal attributes to enable them to act in accordance with the principles of auditing described in clause 4.
An auditor should be:
a) ethical, i.e. fair, truthful, sincere, honest and discreet;
b) open-minded, i.e. willing to consider alternative ideas or points of view;
c) diplomatic, i.e. tactful in dealing with people;
d) observant, i.e. actively aware of physical surroundings and activities;
e) perceptive, i.e. instinctively aware of and able to understand situations;
f) versatile, i.e. adjusts readily to different situations;
g) tenacious, i.e. persistent, focused on achieving objectives;
h) decisive, i.e. reaches timely conclusions based on logical reasoning and analysis; and
i) self-reliant, i.e. acts and functions independently while interacting effectively with others.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Internal Auditor - What is required to have someone qualified as an internal audi

Auditors, internal or external, it doesn't matter which, should be able to display those attributes and skills that are necessary in order to be a good auditor. In fact the definition of competence is "the demonstrated personal attributes and demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skills" (3.14, ISO 19011:2002) and the definition of auditor is "person with the competence to conduct an audit" (3.8, ISO 19011:2002)

A major problem effecting a vast majority of presently existing management systems (and compounded by the auditors reviewing them, myself included) is the horribley poor state of the "competency" processes we sign off on. Very, very few organizations actually do what is required, but because "we" have tolerated sub-standard meeting of requirements we are now in the state of "sit in a class, pass a test" wham, bam, thank-you-mam, auditors.

Back on point, the attributes are those things that are layed out in ISO 19011:2002, clause 7.2 listed below and from where we get those necessary "people skills":

Auditors should possess personal attributes to enable them to act in accordance with the principles of auditing described in clause 4.
An auditor should be:
a) ethical, i.e. fair, truthful, sincere, honest and discreet;
b) open-minded, i.e. willing to consider alternative ideas or points of view;
c) diplomatic, i.e. tactful in dealing with people;
d) observant, i.e. actively aware of physical surroundings and activities;
e) perceptive, i.e. instinctively aware of and able to understand situations;
f) versatile, i.e. adjusts readily to different situations;
g) tenacious, i.e. persistent, focused on achieving objectives;
h) decisive, i.e. reaches timely conclusions based on logical reasoning and analysis; and
i) self-reliant, i.e. acts and functions independently while interacting effectively with others.
Exactly!

Stijloor.
 
M

majorhal - 2009

#10
Re: Internal Auditor - What is required to have someone qualified as an internal audi

Randy is absoooolutely correct in that we 3rd party auditors have accepted a sub-standard test of competency that has perpetuated a dismal result from internal audit processes.

Although ISO 19011:2002 and QE 19011s:2004 (U.S. revision only) outlines the attributes in section 7.2 for auditors, this doesn't guarantee "competency".

An internal auditor training process should include an apprenticeship program. A potential auditor once trained in the standard and ISO 19011 must work with a competent auditor until they have proven their skills and competency.

Best regards,
MajorHal
 
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