Internal audits 3 year plan? Internal audit frequency

#11
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

Randy's approach would be satisfactory, IF (and only IF) each of these sites were already doing their own internal audit programmes. If you are planning to do all the audits for the locations, this is not going to be effective, your CB should be buying into it, and, what's more, your management will see no benefit from the audits - and they will cost you a bundle.

:2cents:
 
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Coury Ferguson

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#12
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

Set your cycle to correspond with the registrar...just provide separation. If the registrar audits twice a year set your audits halfway between theirs.

All you have to show is effective planning, performance and results

Or apply what the registrars have to apply when doing multi-sites

From old Guide 62............

...as long as all facilities are audited within that 3 year cycle
 
G

goodtimes

#13
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

I'm lead auditor for two of our sites. I have a three year plan that works well at one site and I'm creating the second for the other site. The CB's comment on my plan was that he felt we had a mature processes in place and maybe it was time that we stepped back and looked at things a little differently. Reducing the number of audits for us only means that we will spend more time getting more in depth during our internal audits.

Example of an approach that I'm taking at one site:
We have multiple assembly processes that all report into the same manager/supervisor. All of these processes used to be audited separately each year. I've combined all of those processes into one audit each year.

That doesn't mean that I don't/won't audit any new assembly process separtely as they come about. After all the audit schedule is flexible and should take in account situations like that.
 
#14
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

Interesting, that we always ask our CB auditor what they think of the internal audit schedule, to gain their approval, but never do we ask our management!

I wonder why that is........;)
 
G

goodtimes

#15
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

Fact is that management was the driving force behind the schedule but I thought it would be a good idea to present it to the CB auditor. It's time to shake things up a bit, same old schedule same old questions same old answers. I'm thinking my next step is actually to combine some audits of processes that work closely together.
 
#16
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

Fact is that management was the driving force behind the schedule but I thought it would be a good idea to present it to the CB auditor. It's time to shake things up a bit, same old schedule same old questions same old answers. I'm thinking my next step is actually to combine some audits of processes that work closely together.
Do you operate a 'pull system' for audits? Does your management request audits when things are new, changed or underperforming to objectives/customer requirements?

A 3 year plan is a 'push' system - and in most cases, these don't meet the 'status and importance' criteria in ISO 9001......
 
G

goodtimes

#17
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

I try to make it my business to know when things are new, changed or underperforming. My boss "Corporate Quality manager" approves my schedule on a quarterly basis. I'm actually very close to Quality issues because I also work as a Quality Engineer. We have Quarterly Business reviews as well where we discuss Internal Audit plans.

I've only recently joined this forum and my observation is that there is no right or wrong way to schedule audits. My belief is this....if you keep doing the same thing, expect the same results.
 
G

goodtimes

#18
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

I probably didn't really answer your question. My Internal Audit plan is only a plan, it's flexible based on other input (product failures, customer complaints, low yeilds, etc.). All that should alway be considered before taking that plan and creating a quarterly schedule.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#19
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

What is really being discussed is a 3-year audit program comprised of a number of audits conducted over that time period for whatever the intended purpose consists of........(I read ISO 19011 once:lol:)

This really, really isn't rockect science (I know, I worked at Aerojet for a while with real rocket scientists and they didn't do this)......Anyway, all your audits, audit program or as you call it audit plan (wrong use of that phrase in this case) has to do is determine whether or not you have effectively established, implemented and maintained your management system and whether or not your system is able to allow your organization to meet the committments of your policy and achieve you objectives.....that's it, nothing more and nothing less. The only real wrong way is the way that is not effective (for you) and the only really right way is the way that is effective (for you). As long as it works it doesn't matter what someone else likes or dislikes, they can start their own and try to do better if they're so hot and smart.

Just do what you think is right.
 
Last edited:
G

goodtimes

#20
Re: Internal audits 3 year plan?

gotta agree with that!! I'm out of this discussion for today, I'm trying to finish up so I can enjoy a beautiful fall weekend in Ohio.

Thanks!!
 
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