Internal Quality Auditors Training Requirements

#11
Re: Internal Quality Auditors training

Let us see if the standard itself can help us on this issue.Calause 8.2.2 says
Selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process
.Two important things are
selection of auditors
and
ensure objectivty
.Here the objectivity is having a direct link with this requirement
to determine whether the quality management system

a) conforms to the planned arrangements (see 7.1), to the requirements of this
International Standard and to the quality management system requirements
established by the organization, and
b) is effectively implemented and maintained
.

Hope, the selection will be based on competence and to become competent in one field (atleast internal audit), though the training is not compulsory requirement,will it really be possible for auditor to meet audit objectivity with education,skill and experience only?
As an auditor,I don't argue stating that training is a requirement and I have seen many organisations conducting internal audits by auditors,not trained for auditing.Are they able to meet audit objectivity?

Now,let us have a look at the definition of auditor and it states
person with demonestrated personal attributes and competence to conduct an audit
.Competence has two applicability- knowledge and skills.I agree that it is possible to gain knowledge without training but is it really possible to have skill without trainig.Even the first time showing how to do is a training.
Yet,I agree that auditor cannot force for training to be internal auditor.
 
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Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#12
Hi,:bigwave:
We already set competency profile for our Internal Auditors and one of them was sent to training outside for Lead Auditor Training Course for 1st Party and 2nd Party Audit... NOw my concern, is what could be the personnel can give in return to the company... If He passed, can he also be qualified to certify internal and supplier auditors within the company? If not, what could be the alternative. Please advise.
Thank you very much in advance for the usual prompt attention you will give this request.
Raffy:cool:
 
#13
Hi,:bigwave:
We already set competency profile for our Internal Auditors and one of them was sent to training outside for Lead Auditor Training Course for 1st Party and 2nd Party Audit... NOw my concern, is what could be the personnel can give in return to the company... If He passed, can he also be qualified to certify internal and supplier auditors within the company? If not, what could be the alternative. Please advise.
Thank you very much in advance for the usual prompt attention you will give this request.
Raffy:cool:
The same 'rules' apply to competency of an auditor as they do to competency as an instructor/coach. Just because someone has been to an auditor course doesn't mean they'd make a good coach for others. Believe me when I tell you that in nearly 20 years of training people, lots of attendees at those courses had the idea THEY would be able to teach it to others!

You should draw up some competencies for an instructor and then evaluate your 'lead auditor' to see if they are capable of giving instruction. I expect this will be more like OJT than chalk/talk? If you do it again, I'd suggest you select someone who is a good coaching candidate and then, teach them auditing!
 
#14
Also if you sponsor candidats for outside courses,you may ask the course provider to give feed back on suitability of the participants for conducting training.In LA courses,this can be judged to some extent.
 
#15
Also if you sponsor candidats for outside courses,you may ask the course provider to give feed back on suitability of the participants for conducting training.In LA courses,this can be judged to some extent.
Joy - a word of caution, if this is done during/after the course, the company have (potentially) just invested in a course for the 'wrong' person! The instructor should be very careful, without clear criteria, from giving feedback on an individual. It could go the 'wrong way' for them, if the candidate found out...
 
S

samsung

#16
Joy - a word of caution, if this is done during/after the course, the company have (potentially) just invested in a course for the 'wrong' person! The instructor should be very careful, without clear criteria, from giving feedback on an individual. It could go the 'wrong way' for them, if the candidate found out...
This raises another question - when do we evaluate the auditors' competence, i.e.; prior to or after the training course especially when an organization is just implementing the management systems?
 
#17
This raises another question - when do we evaluate the auditors' competence, i.e.; prior to or after the training course especially when an organization is just implementing the management systems?
Or both? There's a clue in the ISO 9001 requirements: I believe it says something like 'determine competence and take action when..'

So, first draw up competency requirements, evaluate the person, decide of training at a class is required, train, then see if the training 'stuck' by doing another evaluation. Don't forget that training is the transfer of a skills, so, if the training is any good, many of the original competency requirements should now be met!
 

Antonio Vieira

Involved - Posts
Trusted Information Resource
#18
Hi!

I read in a book* that one of the main basic requirement to be a quality auditor is "lack of vested interest", in order to have the ability to see important clues.
I don´t see the connection, can some one help me?

Thanks
AV


*How to audit process-based QMS, from ASQ
 
#19
Hi!

I read in a book* that one of the main basic requirement to be a quality auditor is "lack of vested interest", in order to have the ability to see important clues.
I don´t see the connection, can some one help me?

Thanks
AV


*How to audit process-based QMS, from ASQ
If the auditor is having vested interest,he/she is not impertial.An auditor with vested interest will be biased.Vested interest will be related to conflict of interest.Conflict of interest is dealt in ISO 17021 and you may have look.

Hope it helps.
 
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