Interpretation of new IAQG ruling - Audit duration for nonconformance verification

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
9104-001 Clauses 8.2.c)
-
Increased audit duration for nonconformance verification A standard increase in audit duration specific to corrective action verification (e.g. ½ day) is not required.

The audit plan shall clearly indicate the corrective action verification activity with appropriate time allotted. Additional onsite time may be added to the standard 8-hour audit day to address corrective action verification. (reference 8.2.2e)

The requirement per 9104-001 clause 8.2.e for justification of the determined audit duration shall be documented and a record maintained.

STATUS
This resolution is effective immediately at the date of publication and shall be withdrawn following incorporation and implementation of the next revision of the 9104-001 standard.
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

The IAQG is following the IATF lead again. TS 16949 audits have required additional time for corrective action verification for years.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

The IAQG is following the IATF lead again. TS 16949 audits have required additional time for corrective action verification for years.
While I agree ..... the first sentence of the ruling is confusing because they are saying that it is NOT required.

or

Am I reading this wrong?
NOTE: CB have appeal this new ruling because auditors do it during the audit and it adds additional expenses to customers.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

While I agree ..... the first sentence of the ruling is confusing because they are saying that it is NOT required.

or

Am I reading this wrong?
NOTE: CB have appeal this new ruling because auditors do it during the audit and it adds additional expenses to customers.
It is confusing. The way you posted the resolution adds to the confusion. Here's how it looks in the resolution log with a bold header separated from the text:
IAQG Resolution Log said:
9104-001 Clauses 8.2.c) - Increased audit duration for nonconformance verification

A standard increase in audit duration specific to corrective action verification (e.g. ½ day) is not required. The audit plan shall clearly indicate the corrective action verification activity with appropriate time allotted. Additional onsite time may be added to the standard 8-hour audit day to address corrective action verification. (reference 8.2.2e)

The requirement per 9104-001 clause 8.2.e for justification of the determined audit duration shall be documented and a record maintained.
My interpretation of the intent of the resolution is that there should be additional time to follow up on corrective actions from previous audits. What the resolution states is that that the amount of additional time does not need to be a standard amount. The audit plan/agenda should show the verification time as an activity with the amount of time planned, which is additional to normal audit activities.

Also, a normal audit day for AS91XX audits is 8 hours max per auditor, but with this resolution they will allow the additional verification time to extend the audit day to beyond 8 hours.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

It is confusing. The way you posted the resolution adds to the confusion. Here's how it looks in the resolution log with a bold header separated from the text:

My interpretation of the intent of the resolution is that there should be additional time to follow up on corrective actions from previous audits. What the resolution states is that that the amount of additional time does not need to be a standard amount. The audit plan/agenda should show the verification time as an activity with the amount of time planned, which is additional to normal audit activities.

Also, a normal audit day for AS91XX audits is 8 hours max per auditor, but with this resolution they will allow the additional verification time to extend the audit day to beyond 8 hours.
Here is SAI Global Interpretation:

9104-001 Clauses 8.2.c) - Increased audit duration for nonconformance verification

A standard increase in audit duration specific to corrective action verification (e.g. ½ day) is not required. The audit plan shall clearly indicate the corrective action verification activity with appropriate time allotted. Additional onsite time may be added to the standard 8-hour audit day to address corrective action verification. (reference 8.2.2e). The requirement per 9104-001 clause 8.2.e for justification of the determined audit duration shall be documented and a record maintained.



Key points:

- No specific minimum duration increase for corrective action verification is required. It is at the auditor’s discretion to determine if additional time is required (I.e. a large number of NCRs to be verified).

- NCR corrective action verification with its allocation of audit time must be clearly indicated in the audit plan.

- The eight (8) hour audit day may be extended to address NCR corrective action verification. This is not to be considered an unlimited license to extend audit days beyond 8 hours; it is applicable only for NCR follow up. If the total extended audit day time that is added would amount to four hours (1/2 day) or more, that time should be taken as an added day, not as multiple extended days. Example: two 8 hour audit days plus one 4 hour follow-up day is preferable to two sequential 10 hours days.

- Justification for the planned and actual audit duration must be provided in the audit report. This is applicable if time is added, either as an added day or extended days, but it is also applicable for audit plans that include NCR verification where the overall audit duration is not extended.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#6
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

I think the resolution should be rewritten to clarify. It's frustrating that CBs need to come up with their own interpretations.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

I think the resolution should be rewritten to clarify. It's frustrating that CBs need to come up with their own interpretations.
I will try to get this interpretation in practical English. but one must wonder - WHY they make so difficult for the auditor to explain to the customer that they need to charge them additional money because it is the auditors discretion to make additional money....

Not sure if it makes any sense but this is how the industry operates - in the dark and as confusing as possible and then they wonder....


I wonder how ANAB would react to this in the USA
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#8
Re: Interpretation of new IAQG rulling

I can't go into the details, but the day before this resolution was published we were instructed to add additional time to EACH AS91X0 audit that had NCs in the prior audit. ANAB was mentioned in the communication that was sent to us. The communication stated that the AS rules did not allow for regular audit time to be used for NC verification/closure.
 
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