Interpreting AS9100 Clause 8.2.2 Internal Audit Requirements

M

Mario Alberto83

#1
Hello everybody

I am a little stuck on the interpretation for following matter in AS9100 standard. I would really appreciate if you could help me shedding some light on it.

8.2.2 The organization shall conduct internal audits at planned intervals to determine wether the quality management system:
1) Conforms to the planned arrangements (see 7.1)
2) to the requirements of this international standard and
3) to the quality management system requirements established by the organization.

My interpretation:
1) and 2). Planned arrangements (Planning of product realization) inlcude processes for establishment of product requirements (7.2), the need to establish processes and documents (7.3 design, 7.5 production), provision of resources for product (7.4 purchasing), etc. I believe point 1 is part of the intent of point 2, I mean, by having an audit procedure for "all the requirements in the standard", we already cover the requirements for auditing planned arrangements (7.1)

3) I understand that we should also have an audit process for all those organization specific processes that therefore are not governed by the standard sucha as indirect purchasing, finances, recruiting, etc.

Being that said, I got to the conclusion that I am in compliance if I have auditing processes for all QMS processes governed by AS9100 requirements and an audit process for organization specific processes.

Am I on the right way?

Please let me know your very valuable input.

Regards
 
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F

Frenchy406

#3
Internal audits at planned intervals means you have a schedule or some other way of identifying that each process will be audited and it meets whatever interval you defined in your procedure.
I just went through my recertification to Rev. C and I received an NCR for not having an independent auditor audit section 8.2.2 on Internal Audits. That means that one of my auditors cannot audit any other processes or AS9100 requirements because that would mean he is auditing his own area. Has this happened to anyone else?
 
#4
Internal audits at planned intervals means you have a schedule or some other way of identifying that each process will be audited and it meets whatever interval you defined in your procedure.
I just went through my recertification to Rev. C and I received an NCR for not having an independent auditor audit section 8.2.2 on Internal Audits. That means that one of my auditors cannot audit any other processes or AS9100 requirements because that would mean he is auditing his own area. Has this happened to anyone else?
Frenchy - can you 'sanitize' the nc and post the content here? It sounds a little bogus to me... We'll be able to tell better if we know exactly what the deal was, as reported.
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#5
Thanks for your posts guys

I agree with AndyN, and in the other side, I am not confused about the internal audit schedule, intervals, etc. I am just not clear about the scope of the audit.

I want to know if having a plan that audits my QMS regarding requirements of the standard, I already cover the requirement of auditing "conformance to the QMS requirements established by the organization".

Or...should I have independent plans one for the QMS vs standard and other one for organization specific processes vs QMS?
 
#6
Thanks for your posts guys

I agree with AndyN, and in the other side, I am not confused about the internal audit schedule, intervals, etc. I am just not clear about the scope of the audit.

I want to know if having a plan that audits my QMS regarding requirements of the standard, I already cover the requirement of auditing "conformance to the QMS requirements established by the organization".

Or...should I have independent plans one for the QMS vs standard and other one for organization specific processes vs QMS?
Hola! Mario, you don't necessarily have to 'think' AS when doing audits. If your system is compliant to the standard, that is you can show where each requirement meets the various 'shalls' etc, then you audit program will, 'automatically', address the AS requirements, when you audit. I've tried to show it this way, when using the 'Football' diagram I created. By using such an approach (or others) you easily cover 70% of the standard each and every audit! You could, if done proper;y, cover the requirements of the standard in less than a 12 month time frame!
 
F

Frenchy406

#7
ANDY - Exact words for NCR "Records indicate that an auditor that audited the Management and Quality processes also audited the Quality Management System against requirements for Internal Audits, meaning that either the auditor audited her own work or that the audit of the Quality Management System is incomplete (no independent audit of the QMS to Internal Audit requirements)."
 
#8
ANDY - Exact words for NCR "Records indicate that an auditor that audited the Management and Quality processes also audited the Quality Management System against requirements for Internal Audits, meaning that either the auditor audited her own work or that the audit of the Quality Management System is incomplete (no independent audit of the QMS to Internal Audit requirements)."
Aha! Were those particular records an audit of the audits done by the particular auditor? If not, then it's not 'their work' is it? It is perfectly satisfactory for them to audit other audits, as long as you can show that's what they did (from notes made, scope of audit assignment etc)

If the auditor didn't dig into the records to show the auditor actually audited their own previous audits, reject the findings back to the CB with the evidence!:popcorn:
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#9
Andy, your article is very useful, It´s a honor Sir.

I think I can be missinterpreting the requirement:
The standard talks about the audit planning at planned intervals to determine the QMS conforms....to the quality management system requirements established by the organization.

What does "requirements established by the organization" mean?
a) Does ot refer to organization specific processes that are not governed by the standard such as finances, indirect procurement, recruitment, etc?
b) Does it refer to specific goals and rates for OTD, scrap, and other indicators?

Thank you in advance
 
S

SvanRaay

#10
the standard doesnt say you can not audit your own area, it states that an auditor should not audit his own work. the two are different. i audit my boss' work (from another facility) and she audits mine. we are both business systems auditors and that has yet to be an issue.
 
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