Interpreting AS9100 Clause 8.2.2 Internal Audit Requirements

rickpaul01

Involved in HankyPanky
#11
Okay, ther are two different items here.
1. It sounds like the auditor audited his own previous audit. IMHO that would not be allowed.
2. An example of conforming to planned arrangements could be an internal requirement for suppliers to by 95% or better on time. When you audit purchasing, you just make sure they are meeting their plans.
Hope this helps.
 
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Big Jim

Super Moderator
#12
Andy, your article is very useful, It´s a honor Sir.

I think I can be missinterpreting the requirement:
The standard talks about the audit planning at planned intervals to determine the QMS conforms....to the quality management system requirements established by the organization.

What does "requirements established by the organization" mean?
a) Does ot refer to organization specific processes that are not governed by the standard such as finances, indirect procurement, recruitment, etc?
b) Does it refer to specific goals and rates for OTD, scrap, and other indicators?

Thank you in advance
Let's walk through this. The standard says:

"The organization shall conduct internal audits at planned intervals to determine whether the quality management system a) conforms to the planned arrangements, to the requirements of this international standard and to the quality management system requirements established by the organization . . . "

Now lets break it down.

"conforms to planned arrangements" Have you stuck to your planned schedule?

"to the requirements of this international standard" Did you meet the requirements in AS9100C?

"to the quality management system requirements established by the organization" Do you do what you say you are going to do in your quality management system documents? That would include your quality manual, your written procedures, any applicable work instructions, and any other of your organization's documentation.

This looks pretty clear to me. What's the confusion?
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#13
"conforms to planned arrangements" Have you stuck to your planned schedule?

"to the requirements of this international standard" Did you meet the requirements in AS9100C?

"to the quality management system requirements established by the organization" Do you do what you say you are going to do in your quality management system documents? That would include your quality manual, your written procedures, any applicable work instructions, and any other of your organization's documentation.
Hello Big Jim

"conforms to planned arrangements" refers to 7.1 (planning of product realization), I think it does not relate to the audit planned schedule but product realization planning.

"to the requirements of this international standard" Did you meet the requirements in AS9100C? I agree

"to the quality management system requirements established by the organization" As you mention "any other of the organization´s documentation", I therefore think in organization specific processes not goverened by the standard. Should I think of having two types of audits? one for standard requirements and another one for organization specific processes?.

Best Regards and thanks in advance for your input
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#15
Hello Big Jim

"conforms to planned arrangements" refers to 7.1 (planning of product realization), I think it does not relate to the audit planned schedule but product realization planning.

"to the requirements of this international standard" Did you meet the requirements in AS9100C? I agree

"to the quality management system requirements established by the organization" As you mention "any other of the organization´s documentation", I therefore think in organization specific processes not goverened by the standard. Should I think of having two types of audits? one for standard requirements and another one for organization specific processes.

Hi Mario,

The standard is basically saying to audit to determine conformance for

1) Planned arrangements – as you said, 7.1 activities. All those realization processes, are they working as they should and are you doing what the customer wants. (Remember the note that was added in Rev C.)
2) AS9100 reqt’s – are you meeting the intent of the standard.
3) QMS – are you meeting the intent of requirements that your organization has identified that are not included above. Your company may have directives or processes that they have identified as important that are not necessarily mandated by the above 2 requirements.

So basically, you audit your organization and ensure that things are working as they were intended to work. We have used only one type of audit for our internal audits. We have other types of audits like a layered audit that are not meant to meet the intent of an internal audit. Using a process approach to auditing should have you auditing everything you need to, to meet the requirements with no need of an additional type of audit.

I wrote this rather hastily as I was leaving so if I incorrectly worded something I apologize in advance.

Randy
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#17
I, for one, am confused...

Which 'schedule' are you referring to? Planned arrangements can mean many things...

What are you indicating, Jim, as planned arrangements?
I had in mind the audit schedule when I first responded.

Mario pointed out that planned arrangements also include the planning in 7.1 and I agreed.

It has become obvious that planned arrangements can mean much more to which I would not disagree.

Besides adding 5.4, what else would you include?

Before going further, it still seems that the audit schedule would play a prominent role here since that was the topic that this long and awkward sentence opens with 1 & 1/4 lines above it.
 
#18
I had in mind the audit schedule when I first responded.

Mario pointed out that planned arrangements also include the planning in 7.1 and I agreed.

It has become obvious that planned arrangements can mean much more to which I would not disagree.

Besides adding 5.4, what else would you include?

Before going further, it still seems that the audit schedule would play a prominent role here since that was the topic that this long and awkward sentence opens with 1 & 1/4 lines above it.
Well, I'd prefer not to think about it in terms of ISO clauses! Basically, anything that management "planned" on happening! Meeting customers' needs, regulatory requirements (if applic.), maintenance, and so on...
 
A

Auditgirl522

#19
Hello,

I have an Internal Audit Schedule established, my question is for every Internal Audit performed (ie: Receiving, Lathe, Human Resources etc.) does EVERY Audit have to hit on EVERY clause in the AS9100 standard?? Any help would be appreciated :)
 
#20
Hello,

I have an Internal Audit Schedule established, my question is for every Internal Audit performed (ie: Receiving, Lathe, Human Resources etc.) does EVERY Audit have to hit on EVERY clause in the AS9100 standard?? Any help would be appreciated :)
No, because you should be doing audits to your processes requirements and NOT AS9100 clauses. Wasn't this covered in your training? If it were a requirement, it would say as much IN AS9100, btw.

Don't forget 'status and importance" will help you here...
 
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