Definition Inverse Brainstorming

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#41
This term sounds like "consultant speak." Thus it means whatever the consultant who invented it means it to say.

For me, brainstorming is by definition a failrly random, open thinking process. Thus, "inverse" is not a fitting term. To invert something, the thing would would have to have some sort of structure that can be inverted.

Doesn't apply well, here, I think.
 
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H

HSSE Auditor

#42
Where as Inverse Brainstorming starts in absense of a problem.See the major difference!!The first step here,is to find out ways to create a problem,and then find ways to plug the loop holes so the problem does not generate at all.That is the beauty of the strategy.Nipping in the bud!

Other opinions are welcome.
I was just thinking that, in some of the automotive supplier facilities that I am familiar with, if the quality manager said to the plant manager, "We need to implement a tool to create problems". Well then, during my next audit, I would be introduced to the third quality manager of the year. :yes:

These folks are too lean and have too many problems already, to be conjuring up additional problems to wade though. :tg:
 
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Umang Vidyarthi

#44
No, it's not so, and that's where you're confused. As I said earlier, brainstorming is, or should be, a part of the PFMEA process, when possible process failure modes are identified, before any problems occur. You seem to be hung up on the idea that brainstorming is an exclusively reactive process. It's not, which is why what you're describing as inverse brainstorming isn't inverse anything--it's the second stage of the brainstorming process.
Sorry Jim,I am past the (mental)age that breeds confusion.I may be right,or I may be wrong,but confusion is not my cup of tea.My mind is crystal clear on the subject,may be there is a communication gap,may be I am unable to put accross this idea to covers. :(

INVERSE BRAINSTORMING is there from time immemorial,it's not new.Just do a google and this term is available,which goes to prove that this term is not coined by any T.D.H.

Your suggestion that 'Inverse Brainstorming' is a part of Brainstorming,is something I find hard to digest.Brainstorming can be a part of Inverse Brainstorming,literally as well as technically;but the vice versa is beyond my comrehension.

Let me make a fresh effort to show the difference between the two:

1.Brainstorming-used for problem solving-the team players are in positive mode-minds centered towards problem solving-visualise all possible problems that have occured earlier,or may occur(based on bank of knowledge from similar projects)-find solutions by using all problem solving tools in conjunction with FMEA,PFMEA,DFMEA etcetra.

2.Inverse Brainstorming-has two stages-(i) used for delibrately creating problems-the team players are put in negative and destructive mode-aroused to use their latent potential of destructive energy (lying in abundance in Homo Sapiens)-guided and goaded to create as many problems as they can viz:How to cause delays,How to stall production,How to generate non-conforming products at different stages of production,How to increase cost,How to displease the customer etcetra.

(This is where lies the major difference between the two.This has to be fully understood by each participant,else the whole idea goes futts)
Break on completion of task (i)

(ii) The team players (same or different) reassemble and are asked to swtch on their minds towards problem solving,and normal brainstorming session begins.

A very good example was cited by Frank about prison & prisoner.In the great movie 'Von Ryan Express' starring Frank Sinatra,the prisoners were able to out-think thier captors by thinking from out side-in.

Another model of I.B. is Hacking.The hackers using their destructive mind and negative attitude,are capable of hacking any software.They work furiously towards 'Creating Problems'.There are special courses teaching 'Advanced hacking techniques',and major soft ware companies hire professional hackers,use them (cnstructively) for inverse brainstorming and safe guard their product.

Ther are numerous examples,but I think enough is enough. :cool:
 
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chaosweary

#45
I will take the p (potential) FMEA and the Kepner Trego PPA (potential problem analysis) tools over getting into an ideological discussion on whether those tools are deliberate enough for a problem solving approach. I think they are. This stuff kind of gives me flash backs of cybernetics :lol: Anyway if you attempt to approach problem solving with "how can I purposely defeat the system?" the problem becomes the people and the solution a behavioral deterrent which again can be captured using any type of problem solving / preventitive action tool.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#46
Sorry Jim,I am past the (mental)age that breeds confusion.I may be right,or I may be wrong,but confusion is not my cup of tea. :(
Well, I talked this over with Daisy, and she's confused.




Anyone interested in the subject can read through the discussion and come to their own conclusions. Thanks for the ideas. :agree:
 
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Umang Vidyarthi

#47
I will take the p (potential) FMEA and the Kepner Trego PPA (potential problem analysis) tools over getting into an ideological discussion on whether those tools are deliberate enough for a problem solving approach. I think they are. This stuff kind of gives me flash backs of cybernetics :lol: Anyway if you attempt to approach problem solving with "how can I purposely defeat the system?" the problem becomes the people and the solution a behavioral deterrent which again can be captured using any type of problem solving / preventitive action tool.
:bigwave: Welcome to the debate Chaos.KT approach is very effective no denying it.I do visit KT circle.PFMEA is not a tool by itself,it is used in conjunction with other problem solving tools.

Who prefers which tool over others,is a matter of liking and understanding of every individual.It varies with requirement and ease a person has with the tool in question.This is not the point of discussion here.The discussion here is wheather you recognise Inverse Brainstorming as a worthy tool,or a tool,or nothing et-all. :notme:

Once again,I would like to focus your attention on the HACKERS.Show me a single soft-ware company worth its salt,that can afford to launch its product without the Inverse analysis done by hired Hackers?!

In the intelligence community,Inverse Brainstorming is a must,since it is a matter of life and death for the person(s) involved.You are dead,even if your body has not died but your cover is burnt,because of one uncalculative move!Can you comprehend the seriousness of the scenario? I can,because I have gone through the process.

Chess Grand Masters can not contribute anything to chess manuels without the power of Inverse Brainstorming.The permutation & combinations are astronomical,and one single mistake costs the game.

Please do not condemn any thing just because you don't like it,or don't need it,or you don't understand its importance to others.Laughing or cutting jokes on a serios matter like this,is something any one can do-period.I don't blame you,you may be right by your lights,since there are no absolute rights or wrongs. :2cents:

I'm sorry if you feel hurt by my out burst,but sometimes it becomes difficult to control.There is nothing personal since we don't even know each other.

I don't say what I mean,but I mean what I say.

Umang :caution:
 
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Umang Vidyarthi

#48
Well, I talked this over with Daisy, and she's confused.

Anyone interested in the subject can read through the discussion and come to their own conclusions. Thanks for the ideas. :agree:
Whom you consult is your prerogative Jim.At least you have the most fathful consultant on planet Earth.I envy you. :agree:
 
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chaosweary

#49
It's a fun discussion. If you use hackers as an example, then again I would go back to the root cause (behavior, not software) for the solution otherwise one would have to patch every possibility which is improbable. In this case as I stated in my prior post you need a behavioral deterrent for a true solution.
You can't really apply a hacker and chess scenario, as in chess there are rules. In all cases if you physically remove the opponent, you win. Bobby Fischer can't beat someone at chess if he is unconscious or not at the game or the opponent never comes to the game. :lol: As far as the undercover scenario, I thought we were applying this to problem solving (my step father was a cop and went undercover, that was to gather evidence/data, not to problem solve). :biglaugh:
I don't condemn it, I just have issues with the feasibility. I guess you would have to show me evidence where this technique mitigates risk more than other tools. I guess the positive is that it looks like it would keep someone in a job for a long time!:lol:
Yeah, I tried causal loop analysis too...and came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth the time dealing with all the variables.:bonk: However I just may use this as management often likes changes just for the sake of change!:D
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#50
Brainstorming is all about thinking up creative ways around problems, while Inverse Brainstorming looks at an oppurtunity and then considers all obstacles that might prevent the oppurtunity from working. This technique is useful in exposing the assumptions that often lie hidden in the unconscious mind.

Examples of Inverse Brainstorming are -

1. what would increase cost, or
2. what would displease the customer
 
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