Is a Documented Procedure required for HR (Human Resources)

T

The Specialist

#31
AndyN,

There is clearly divided opinion on this.
This was my original standpoint (earlier post):

“…whilst something may not be ‘mandatory’ in the eyes of the regulating authority, it does not exempt ‘it’ from being ‘best/standard practice’ and is therefore still of great importance/value.”


Of course, this is only an opinion I have formed based upon scenarios I have played out in my mind about the potential issues with lack of HR procedure.
My opinion is not in support of any foundation in regulation about the requirement for HR procedure under ISO:9001.

My thinking comes from standardisation of HR processes… to eliminate confusion or doubt with regard to personnel management, expectations, discipline etc…

I can only offer my view…!
 
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T

The Specialist

#32
What's 'good' about it? Goodness has to be qualified. Just saying it's so isn't a justification...

In my house, we have 3 or 4 people who all cook. We all, at one time or another, make scrambled eggs. Are you suggesting that such a task, if in a business (restaurant) should be documented?
QUOTE]


YES!

I believe it is called a recipe!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#33
AndyN,

There is clearly divided opinion on this.
This was my original standpoint (earlier post):

“…whilst something may not be ‘mandatory’ in the eyes of the regulating authority, it does not exempt ‘it’ from being ‘best/standard practice’ and is therefore still of great importance/value.”


Of course, this is only an opinion I have formed based upon scenarios I have played out in my mind about the potential issues with lack of HR procedure.
My opinion is not in support of any foundation in regulation about the requirement for HR procedure under ISO:9001.

My thinking comes from standardisation of HR processes… to eliminate confusion or doubt with regard to personnel management, expectations, discipline etc…

I can only offer my view…!
There is nothing necessarily wrong with having the processes of HR standardized, and potentially much to be gained as you point out. Nonetheless, the goodness of such control would be just as good if ISO 9001 had never existed, so it has nothing pertinent to do with questions about the requirements of the standard.

This is not to say that in threads such as this that no one should suggest going beyond the requirements of the standard; we just need to be clear on the difference between that which is required and that which is perhaps desirable, but not required.
 
#34
What's 'good' about it? Goodness has to be qualified. Just saying it's so isn't a justification...

In my house, we have 3 or 4 people who all cook. We all, at one time or another, make scrambled eggs. Are you suggesting that such a task, if in a business (restaurant) should be documented?
QUOTE]


YES!

I believe it is called a recipe!
A recipe? For scrambled eggs? Perish the thought!
 
T

The Specialist

#35
A recipe? For scrambled eggs? Perish the thought!

Okay, okay!!

So scrambled eggs are not exactly difficult! (and not going to appear as a stand-alone dish in any decent restaurant anyway!)

However consider this (if you were a decent restaurant, providing consistent food to the same standard time and time again):

How many eggs do you use per portion?
What is the quantity of milk per portion?
What quantity of Salt, Pepper, cress or chives?

What temperature setting does the oven need be?
What pan should I [email protected]
How long is the cooking time?
At what point in the process should I add the milk?
How soon should I start to agitate the mix, how ferociously, how frequently, how long?

What should I do if I make a mistake?:

- Too much of one ingredient
- Got shell in the mix

Etc…

Look;

I am not trying to be petulant here… just pointing out the fact that even the most simple process has a method.
And you have a point. This ‘recipe’ example may not be documented within the restaurant, but will have been trained out, so that it remains consistent.

With something as large as an HR function, I just believe it makes sense to have a procedure in place.

I concede though. There is no requirement, so you need not document it.
 
#36
With something as large as an HR function, I just believe it makes sense to have a procedure in place.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I concede though. There is no requirement, so you need not document it.
There has been no mention of 'size' here! There's a lot of information missing from the OP, other than the basic question of whether a documented procedure is required...
 
T

The Specialist

#37
Fair enough Andy,

I have tried to stand by my point here and will have to agree to disagree on this one!

I think my point has been discussed ad nauseam!
 

Brizilla

Quite Involved in Discussions
#38
Dear Samsung,

You pointed out sub-clause of 4.2.1 (d) that is documents, including records . . . .. .

Where as you may please refer clause No.4.2 documentation requirements. 4.2.1 showing general requirements, starting "the quality management system documentation shall include a, b, c & d

a, b, c & d to be considered.

Ofcourse you are correct "That doesn't lead anyone to conclude that a 'documented procedure' for HR is anyway required"

But I think "this does not lead anyone to conclude that a documented procedure for HR is anyway not required".
It would with me. I try to take the minimalist approach to documentation. I only have it if it's useful or needed and the two might not be the same. ;)
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#40
Big Jim,

I agree that 'liberation' from over-burdening procedure and documentation is a good thing, however; where proceduralisation [sic] standardises, informs and improves one's operations - it has to be a good thing, surely?
Only to a point. At some point documentation becomes burdensome and when unchecked does more harm than good.
 
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