Is a Training Matrix Enough to cover ISO requirements?

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
Along these same lines, kind of, the current discussion with our quality team is training files. I was advised by an auditor at a training class on AS9100 auditing that customarily in a training file there is a job description with whatever requirements are necessary for an individual to have the job, in correlation with this document there is a copy of those requirements. (e.g. if the requirements say an engineering degree is required then a copy of the persons diploma is inserted.) Is this something that a lot of companies do or was this person telling me something that really I don't need to do. Is it a good idea to do this or a waste of time? Granted, I know this won't cover the training portion of the standard but more the "records of education" portion? :frust: Someone PLEASE help! Thanks!

The requirements of cl 6.2 can be summarized pretty easily into three steps:

1. Identify the necessary skills to be competent or proficient for each position.

2. Ensure that those skills are achieved by way of training, education, experience, reading, etc.

3. Maintain records that these skills have been reviewed and that competency was determined for these skills. Records must be kept.

How you meet these three requirements is left to you to set up.
 
D

driaadi

HI,
I have a question related to this subject:

IS it necessary to have a training schedule?

I have seen many companies including such a training schedule in order to comply.

THX
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
In my view yes, a training schedule is needed. The organization needs to be able to show it understands the rate of which the awareness to specifications and processes, and the accurate performance to them, would decline. In addition, many of us should have refresher training to catch up with industry advancements.

Some kinds of training, such as OSHA's required training for lockout tagout, have prescribed periodicities. Your training schedule would reflect that you recognize that and are complying with the law where it applies.

If you have no schedule, an auditor is likely to ask how you plan to make sure your employees know what they are required to do, and perform accurately over time; how you can tell when a need for retraining is expected. If you wait until the need for training becomes apparent for some reason, you would likely get a nonconformance for lack of planning to avoid errors.
 
D

driaadi

:thanks:

I thought so. Indeed, in my country at least we have to have labor protection training every 3 month by law, and that is planned. My question appeared because I couldn't find it specific anywhere in the Standard and I need to understand why we have to have it. But is it enough to have training planned on employment, when changes in legislation and Standards, when introducing a new piece of equipment or software and whenever necessary (this is what really happens)?

Another question would be where in the documentation should we cover this, should we have a HR procedure?:confused:

THX again
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
HI,
I have a question related to this subject:

IS it necessary to have a training schedule?

I have seen many companies including such a training schedule in order to comply.

THX

No.

The requirements are simply to:
1. identify what skills are needed (for each position)
2. determine how each person lines up to those skills, and provide whatever training or mentoring is needed to achieve those skills.
3. Keep records of what competencies have been determined and evaluated.

A training schedule might be useful to show that certain periodic trainings are met. In the USA, some government regulations require perioic retrainings.
 
D

driaadi

No.

The requirements are simply to:
1. identify what skills are needed (for each position)
2. determine how each person lines up to those skills, and provide whatever training or mentoring is needed to achieve those skills.
3. Keep records of what competencies have been determined and evaluated.

A training schedule might be useful to show that certain periodic trainings are met. In the USA, some government regulations require perioic retrainings.

We have job descriptions for no.1

We have employment contracts for no. 2,3 , customer satisfaction records and some records of training and evaluation, but I don't believe we need to schedule training because we say we do it whenever changes in legislation, equiment or software and on employment.

Any clue?

THX
 

AndyN

Moved On
As Helmut says, no schedule, no calendar of training is required. What's required is to take action (which might include training) to make up any areas where competencies are lacking. IMHO, there's too much emphasis on 'training' as a broad 'bucket' to throw those actions into. It's more than training in many cases to get someone to be good at what they do.

On the other hand, training, if it's the desired action, probably does need to be planned (and scheduled). Sometimes it's given to a set schedule (semi-annually or similar) due to economics/logistics etc., otherwise it should really be performed on a 'just in time' basis, to reduce the 'use it or lose it' syndrome.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
We have job descriptions for no.1

We have employment contracts for no. 2,3 , customer satisfaction records and some records of training and evaluation, but I don't believe we need to schedule training because we say we do it whenever changes in legislation, equiment or software and on employment.

Any clue?

THX


Well, if you have those things, then you probably do not need a training schedule. The standard does not require one.

Bear in mind, the focus is not on training, the focus is on the results - competent employees. You have to demonstrate that your employees are competent in meeting all the skills you identified. Your answer to my #2 and 3 might not be strong enough. You would need records of competent evaluation or determination for all covered employees, not just "some" records.

Bottom line, the ISO standards want people to know the skills needed to do their jobs. That is logical and wise.
 

Jonny

Registered
A matrix showing employee, tasks, & skill level is where we started. We designed a database around that then added recording of training needs and training done. Got it all wrapped up in an Access database with reports showing who is skilled at what, how many skills have been updated (pick your time period), etc. What training has been done.This allows all Supervisors to see who is skilled on a machine even if they are outside of their department. It allows quick access to all the training records and should also come in handy around audit time. :agree1:
Do you happen to have a template of your Access Database?
 
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