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Is a work instruction mandatory - CNC machine

B

blue moon

#11
Are you going to compensate the people for the answers they give you?
thanks AndyN for your reply

i think i have my own steps twoards quality

and i do this consultant for free to get experience , it is a private work beside my main job

and i choose elsmar for encourge my experience
 
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B

blue moon

#12
So work instruction is not mandatory my friend.

thanks somashekar


and i have some question also

are the
1- specification of product and the method of inspection / testing
2- criteria for product acceptance
3- criteria for acceptance the purchased material

must be documemted

also they said that they have the experience for doing testing and all operators know the criteria for product acceptance
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
thanks somashekar


and i have some question also

are the
1- specification of product and the method of inspection / testing
2- criteria for product acceptance
3- criteria for acceptance the purchased material

must be documemted

also they said that they have the experience for doing testing and all operators know the criteria for product acceptance

I would document the specifications and criteria for product acceptance.
Inconsistency in the use and interpretation of requirements will lead to serious trouble.

Stijloor.
 
#14
thanks AndyN for your reply

i think i have my own steps twoards quality

and i do this consultant for free to get experience , it is a private work beside my main job

and i choose elsmar for encourge my experience
That's an excellent way to start out! :agree1:More power to you to do this. Keep coming back for more answers and....




please send some money to my house.......:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
P

Polly Pure Bread

#15
the work instruction should be approach in general term, not on the basis of specific adjustment for the particular item.

just have a work instruction on how the operation starts until it finishes (same as with the inspection). dont complicate the work instruction.

it just telling you what you do, not on what are you doing on every item.

assuming that the operator is indeed have experience, if i am the auditor, i will ask, "what if the operator is not available? how will another person operate the machine?"

those simple questions will surely sets the team with observation or NC.

:agree1::notme:
i agree with my kabayan. "what if the operator is not available? how will another person operate the machine?" the purpose of a work instruction is to quide, to instruct, reduce confusion and uncertainty. you can use videos if you don’t like the written guides. others use pictures in detailed step by step guides. you can use any suitable form as long as the result is effective. remeber the purpose is to guide.. nothing else...
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
I would document the specifications and criteria for product acceptance.
Inconsistency in the use and interpretation of requirements will lead to serious trouble.

Stijloor.
Yes,
A good process may be a paperless process, but certainly not a documentless process. The records generated during inspection / testing would otherwise have no basis to decide the acceptance. And again records are a type of documents and must be controlled.
How to do a task >>> work instructions >>> not mandatory
Specifications >>> Inspection and testing results meets specifications >>> Records of result >>> The Documents provide the evidence.
 
#17
i agree with my kabayan. "what if the operator is not available? how will another person operate the machine?"
Well, hopefully they have more than one 'competent person' available to run such machines. Following a work instruction on how to operate a complex machine like this isn't going to work! Indeed, that could rapidly turn into a safety issue.

If the company doesn't have a second person, then they have a (latent) problem with resources......
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#18
You should start with the knowledge that, generally, best practices include a tooling setup chart, a tool path print, set-up procedure, operator instruction and PM procedure. If you walk up to a machine, and you didn't build it and didn't program it, how would you know that stuff?

In order to have efficient set-ups (reduced set-up time) and consistent start-ups, you should have a set-up procedure (speeds, feeds, coolant line location, coolant flow, which coolant used, etc.)

You should have an operator instruction to understand what corrections to make while running the part - such as: If a particular dimension starts to get surface finish problems than first try changing the tool. If that does not work, then the material lot is different and the spindle speed or the tool travel speed needs changed.

You should also have PM instructions to know when and what to maintain on the machine. Some people claim thy follow the manufacturer's suggested PM, but when you check what they have done versus the recommended PM, they start to qualify their stand.

Now, if one can explain how the operator knows this information intuitively from their training, then you can start to ask the question of whether any of the above work instructions are necessary. That means so intuitive that if your set-up man goes on vacation or leaves altogether, you can keep on plugging and chugging with little problem. The complexity of the work being done on the CNC machine has an impact of the degree of documentation. If you are doing essentially the same work that could be done on a drill press, then that will not require the same detail as a 10 tool set-up with a 20 minute process time.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#19
Well, hopefully they have more than one 'competent person' available to run such machines. Following a work instruction on how to operate a complex machine like this isn't going to work! Indeed, that could rapidly turn into a safety issue.

If the company doesn't have a second person, then they have a (latent) problem with resources......
In CNC, it doesn't work that way.

You can have three set-up men - all "competent." If you do not have set-up instructions, they will set-up the job their own style, allowing inconsistency in both the output and the quality. Moreover, if a person has not set up a job before, it could take them 2 hours to figure out how to set up the job on their own, but with the instructions on the set-up written with information from the person who first set it up, you can cut it down to 30 minutes, and with less set-up scrap.

You can have a "competent" operator who runs a particular part all day long, knows the intricacies of that part, the relationship of the tools to the materials, the amount of tool wear to expect when the machine is working correctly. You can take another operator, with the same kinds of knowledge on another part and similar machine and have them run this part - and just because they are a competent operator there is no way they will have that information intuitively. That generate unnecessary scrap from incorrect tool changes and offsets.

Competent does not mean omnipotent. It is a base set of skills.

And, by the way, there is the issue of becoming competent. Without this information to train a new person of any skill set, how effective is the training going to be ("oh - I forgot to tell you about that...you will have to scrap that lot")? Will "urban legend" ("we always did it that way, but nobody remembers why") information be sufficient?
 
#20
Ah, Bob. Set-up maybe, but that wasn't mentioned, and previous posts spoke of operators running the machine.....Like a lot of situations discussed here, one can always make a case for very specific instances. I was attempting to help the case for 'everything must be written down', when clearly that's not the case.....and since the specifics you cited weren't in any previously made posts, I went with the generalization.......

But in the case you described, set up, I'd agree..........
 
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