Is AIAG PPAP section 2.1 waiver a solution?

Q

Qualipedia

#1
Folks, need some help! I have a supplier that produces seals using their standard tooling. We did not pay for tooling. They have been shipping off the shelf parts to us and luckily they have been meeting material test results and dimensional results.. They have been shipping us for years. However, these parts were not PPAP'd in the past.. Recently we sent PPAP requests to the supplier... The supplier got back to us stating that these parts cannot be PPAP'd since standard tooling is used.. AIAG PPAP manual section 2.1 states -
Parts from each unique production process e.g., duplicate assembly line, work cell, each position of a multiple cavity die, mold, tool or pattern, shall be measured and the representative parts tested.'

The supplier has a bank of tools that can be used to make thes parts for us.. So we could be receiving parts from a tool which never originally measured in the original PPAP document. One option is to buy custom tooling which means thousands of dollars. I am not sure if there is another approach to this.. Maybe I am failing to discover the right option? Please provide me some guidance on this..

Is AIAG PPAP section 2.1 waiver a solution?
 
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Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: PPAP Waiver Question

For all practical purposes, it appears waiver is the right option and I would go for one. However, I am not sure of the legalities involved. I earlier worked for an European OEM where I heard PPAP has legal implications. In India PPAP is too little a legal document and more of a project approval document. It is also worth considering the criticality of the Seal in the parent system before any decision.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#3
Re: PPAP Waiver Question

What would your OEM / customer say if you waive the PPAP requirements?

I think they are trying to get away with not doing a PPAP.

Standard tooling is not a good argument. There are 19 elements in the PPAP.
 
Q

Qualipedia

#4
Re: PPAP Waiver Question

I think what the supplier is saying is valid.. They are using a tool out of their bank of tools to produce parts.. Per the AIAG PPAP Section 2.1, every work cell, cavity, tool, die that is used to produce parts must be approved by the Customer via PPAP..

They make thousands of these seals and ship to different customers.. So validating every single tool while doing a PPAP is practically not possible unless we buy custom tooling..

We have hundreds of parts waiting to be PPAP'd and on hold due to this.. Custom tooling for each would affect our bonuses.. :)

And yes, I think standard tooling is a good argument.. Even if one element of the PPAP is not met, it is not a valid PPAP and I will not be approving it..
 
Q

Qualgal

#5
Re: PPAP Waiver Question

In my opinion, I believe the customer is trying to get away with not completing a PPAP. In manufacturing, often there are standard tools used to produce product. For example, tubing extruders. These machines make tubing of various sizes and materials. I was always required to complete a PPAP to the customer. These extruders and various tooling were capital purchases made by my employer not tooling paid for by the customer. Without these tools we would not be able to sell product to customers.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: PPAP Waiver Question

Stepping outside of the documents for a second here...

Do you have an alternative supplier?
Another way to ask the same question: Who is in the driver's seat on this one?

If they are trying to get out of a PPAP, kudos to them...I would. The real question is whether there is leverage to force the issue...and whose hand is on the lever?

You can easily waive the requirement to PPAP every tool...or you could require that only tools reported in the PPAP can be used for your parts...or you can swallow the cost of a dedicated tool...or..or..or.

In the end, PPAP is measured in dollars and cents...whose dollars are on the line? (typically multiple people's)
 
S

sky66666

#7
Re: PPAP Waiver Question

Just talk about section 2.1 of PPAP, it is suit to the old standard tooling .In mass production ,we check the product dimension from unique line or each cave so that each product meet the requirement. we just collect but re-measure dimension for PPAP.
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Hi
The waiver definitely a temporary solution to AIAG PPAP section 2.1.
Escaping the requirement is not an answer. I admire people who do PPAP because you are complying to the requirement and it will be a good reference for your company in the future.
There are people who abused the use of waiver :frust: coming from a Customer Representative without realizing in the end that non compliance to the requirement may put the company in uncompromising situation due to some legalities.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Raffy:cool:
 
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