Is an 8D Report and a NCR (Nonconformance Report) the same?

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D

David DeLong

#3
I agree with Jim on this one. A nonconformance states the deficiency and afterwards there would be a disposition rendered. An 8 D is the short and long term corrective action to eliminate the "defect" in future runs. There usually is a section for preventive action on similar processes.
 

cferrer

Involved In Discussions
#4
Would the disposition be the "immediate action" part, i.e. correction/containtment (D3)? Or better asked, would the disposition (rework/repair, scrap, UAI, RTS) be one of the possible components of the "immediate action"? Or does the disposition workflow run completely parallel and separate to the 8D methodology?
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Normally, first is the disposition, you have to fix the problem, sometimes is sufficient and turn the page, (if it is a Minor problem) if not, next Is the 8d or fishbone or whatever.
Sometimes both actions run in parallel.
 

John Predmore

Trusted Information Resource
#6
would the disposition (rework/repair, scrap, UAI, RTS) be one of the possible components of the "immediate action"?
There are 8 activities in an 8-D. The D refers to 8 Disciplines, or aspects of a problem-solving effort. There are different forms and formats used by different companies, so you might find slight differences when you search the Internet. In general, the 8 activities could be assigned to different persons, could be started at different times or could be completed out of order. But there is an logical sequence order which makes sense, so when making a list of activities, undertake them in logical order.

In common practice, the "immediate action" is to prevent the immediate problem from spreading, escaping (getting out of your factory into the hands of more customers) or getting worse. I call that Containment. Typically, the immediate action does not "solve" the root problem from recurring. Often, there is more investigation and more definitive corrective action to prevent or reduce the problem happening again.

I agree "Disposition" of suspect parts must be done and could be part of the Containment activity (3rd D). But the act of Disposition contributes nothing to reduce the root problem, does little to protect the customer in the long-term. Disposition might actually be used to hide the problem from management, which is not helpful to problem-solving IMHO. Disposition is a much lower priority than Containment and if problem-solver resources are limited, Disposition is done later.
 

cferrer

Involved In Discussions
#7
Thank you guys, this helps a lot. I guess my confusion started after reading this article:
Building a Solid CAPA Framework Part 2
.. which equates dispostion with correction.

A bit of background: I am trying to map out a comprehensive complaints management process that includes RMAs, NCs/CAPA, post-delivery escapes, etc.. Thus, I am having trouble reconciling the differences between all these types of quality events and the paths or workflows they require within the company. So, trying to channel them all under the roof of the 8D-methodology is not turning out to be any easier.
It might just be too ambitions to try to combine these processes.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#8
generally, at least in the automotive sphere...the 8D is a powerful tool used to establish root cause...and various levels of corrective actions. Many, many times the 8D is ignored...some choose to use other tools. In either case it lends much needed structure and organization to what can at times (in the drive to move production forward...)be a splintered, fragmented process. Re: the other forms/tools above should really complement and support the 8D RC/CA process...my two Euros worth
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Let's take it step by step.

First there is detection. I find a couple of nonconforming parts.
I "NCR" them (people love to verb nouns) which is really just a means of identifying and notifying people that these parts are bad. the parts are 'segregated' physically or electronically or by some means from the 'good' parts.

Then comes correction. Someone comes and dispositions the bad parts. this is also referred to as 'correction'. In other words I either rework or repair* the parts to make them 'good' again. or I determine that they are acceptable as is**. Or I scrap them/return them to the supplier to remove them from the system.

Next comes containment. Containment is as John P said - screen future parts to ensure any 'bad' parts don't escape and screen to ensure that there are no parts that did escape downstream to finished goods or the customer and are there any necessary actions for parts that did escape tot eh Customer to improve their experience (recall & replace, free goods, special instructions, proactive notification, etc.)

Next comes 8D/corrective action to prevent recurrence. Now depending on the severity of the detected problem the 8D may start at containment. sometimes 8D starts after containment when it is found to be severe and extensive. And of course some occurrences of a defect are too few in number and/or severity to not require an 8D/corrective action to prevent recurrence...

*repair in some industries has a special meaning. this may generate another review and approval loop.
**Use as is can also generate special review and approval loops
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
Let's take it step by step.

First there is detection. I find a couple of nonconforming parts.
I "NCR" them (people love to verb nouns) which is really just a means of identifying and notifying people that these parts are bad. the parts are 'segregated' physically or electronically or by some means from the 'good' parts.

Then comes correction. Someone comes and dispositions the bad parts. this is also referred to as 'correction'. In other words I either rework or repair* the parts to make them 'good' again. or I determine that they are acceptable as is**. Or I scrap them/return them to the supplier to remove them from the system.

Next comes containment. Containment is as John P said - screen future parts to ensure any 'bad' parts don't escape and screen to ensure that there are no parts that did escape downstream to finished goods or the customer and are there any necessary actions for parts that did escape tot eh Customer to improve their experience (recall & replace, free goods, special instructions, proactive notification, etc.)

Next comes 8D/corrective action to prevent recurrence. Now depending on the severity of the detected problem the 8D may start at containment. sometimes 8D starts after containment when it is found to be severe and extensive. And of course some occurrences of a defect are too few in number and/or severity to not require an 8D/corrective action to prevent recurrence...

*repair in some industries has a special meaning. this may generate another review and approval loop.
**Use as is can also generate special review and approval loops
I think containment has to come before correction--it's usually the first thing done upon notification or discovery. You can't do correction until you've located all of the suspect material.
 
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