Is hiring a CB for certification and periodic audits an outsourced activity?

S

samsung

#1
There are some processes which an organization can not carry out on it's own (or not allowed to do) and therefore these processes have to be outsourced. One such activity/ process is Certification Audit which fits into the definition of 'Outsourcing' as stated in 9001.

Where an organization chooses to outsource any process that affects product conformity to requirements, the organization shall ensure control over such processes. The type and extent of control to be applied to these outsourced processes shall be defined within the quality management system.
Are there organizations which treat 'hiring the CB for certification and periodic audits' as an outsourced process?

Your opinion please.

Thanks.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
This is taking it a little too far ~~~
Even though I have the strength to internal audit as effectively or better than a CB, I have no recognition to certify myself.
Outsourcing CB amounts to exercising such controls over the CB to provide product / service to your requirements and not to the requirements of the international standards ... :mg:
You evaluate and select CB, there by it is a good purchasing process of contracting with a CB (I would not use the word hire)
 
Last edited:
#3
There are some processes which an organization can not carry out on it's own (or not allowed to do) and therefore these processes have to be outsourced. One such activity/ process is Certification Audit which fits into the definition of 'Outsourcing' as stated in 9001.



Are there organizations which treat 'hiring the CB for certification and periodic audits' as an outsourced process?

Your opinion please.

Thanks.
No! It has nothing to do with your processing of product to meet customer requirements, like machining, painting, plating, welding or something similar.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Leader
Admin
#4
If we look at the document
ISO 9000 Introduction and Support Package: Guidance on 'Outsourced Processes'


We can see
2.1) What is an “outsourced process”?

The Oxford English Dictionary defines the verb “outsource” as “to obtain….. by contract from a source outside the organization or area; to contract (work) out”

As now defined in ISO 9001:2008 Sub clause 4.1 NOTE 2, an “outsourced process” is a process that the organization needs for its quality management system and which the organization chooses to have performed by an external party.
The operative word here is chooses as Somashekar said before you cannot choose to use a CB, there is no alternative.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
:bigwave:
No! It has nothing to do with your processing of product to meet customer requirements, like machining, painting, plating, welding or something similar.
Uh, Andyyyyyyy! What if a condition of contact (7.2.1) is that an accredited 3rd party registration be obtained as part of the deliverable?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#6
:bigwave:

Uh, Andyyyyyyy! What if a condition of contact (7.2.1) is that an accredited 3rd party registration be obtained as part of the deliverable?
I would say that if you've obtained accredited third-party registration, you've fulfilled that requirement of the "contact."
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#7
No! It has nothing to do with your processing of product to meet customer requirements, like machining, painting, plating, welding or something similar.
Correct. Just like getting your medical device product approved by the FDA is not an outsourced process.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#9
I worked (previous employer) on a Cost + Award Fee contract that had a stipulation along with all the others that 3rd party certification to ISO 9001 was an absolute within the 1st year of the contract delivery (a $200million + contract). The certificate in hand was just as important to the customer as the M1 tanks we repaired and a portion of the award fee was attached to having it. The cert was a measurable and a deliverable. The cert was no different that any other contract or product specification that had to be planned, realized and delivered.

I ain't on nuttin and I'm 60 lbs lighter. Ya'll need to get out of the manufacturing only mind-set.
 
#10
I worked (previous employer) on a Cost + Award Fee contract that had a stipulation along with all the others that 3rd party certification to ISO 9001 was an absolute within the 1st year of the contract delivery (a $200million + contract). The certificate in hand was just as important to the customer as the M1 tanks we repaired and a portion of the award fee was attached to having it. The cert was a measurable and a deliverable. The cert was no different that any other contract or product specification that had to be planned, realized and delivered.

I ain't on nuttin and I'm 60 lbs lighter. Ya'll need to get out of the manufacturing only mind-set.
Ok, but how is that anything to do with outsourced process, as applicable to the implementation of an ISO 9001 based system?
 
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