Is IFOT (In Full & On Time) enough to determine Customer Perception?

[CarolX]

I'd say it's not enough because ITOF does not describe how the companies performance is percepted by the customer. Customers might be really happy with 100% ITOF but would be way happier if all of the products came in yellow wrapping paper instead of cardboard boxes (even though they don't complain), or another product line that suits the product, etc.. That's why you have to get the information from them and not just from process performance.

Hi Martijn and Welcome to the Cove,

I was responding to ganglai position that what he was doing did not meet the requirements of 9K2K.

I think you need to define that, in your example, you are exceeding expectations. Of course, 9K2K is all about continual improvement. The standard tells you what to measure, now how to measure that. IMHO, there are a 1000 ways to achieve this.

If the customer is happy with 100% ITOF, great. And it is perfectly acceptable to use this as a measurment tool for customer satifaction.

Exceeding the requirements, or, in your case, customer delight, would fall under continous improvement.

 

[SteelMaiden]

I would say that would be a part of the measure of customer perception...but what if you send it all, on time, but there was a problem with 1) quality, 2) paperwork, 3) customer service? There are many things that can form the customers' perception of you besides on time delivery.

 

[apestate]

I think it bears re-emphasizing that it is necessary to capture the customer's perception of your performance, for adherance to ISO 9001:2000, and for business success.

It' s essential to capture the customer's perception of your company's performance.

A customer of yours might be giving you this information already. Most larger companies will rate their suppliers and share this information every month, giving you a number based on your delivery, quality, cost, certs, etc. These companies are telling their suppliers what their perception of vendor quality is, and telling each supplier how they are doing.

I can see that you understand the requirement of this clause, ganglai, because you are monitoring the customer's perception by monitoring customer complaints. If this were written in the quality manual as the method for monitoring customer perception, a passive auditor may be satisfied with that. Every auditor, however, will likely note that this sort of process could be improved.

You know that the standard requires us to be watchful that we are meeting the requirements of the jobs we do. The real difference in this clause is that we are looking at the requirements from the customer's point of view. And you know that things always look different from the other party's point of view.

It would be nice to know that you've found a way to get the customer's point of view. Are you meeting requirements from their perspective? Ask the people if they are satisfied with In Full & On Time, and hopefully, tour the plant and talk to some of the people who use your product. Ask them how they like using your product, ask them if it meets the requirements.

This is the information you want. These are your customers, and it's their point of view you want to capture and use.

With interest
--Erik

 

[ganglai]

Thanks very much Erik.

A customer of yours might be giving you this information already. Most larger companies will rate their suppliers and share this information every month, giving you a number based on your delivery, quality, cost, certs, etc. These companies are telling their suppliers what their perception of vendor quality is, and telling each supplier how they are doing.

Yes, you are right. We have one customer who send us supplier rating on a yearly basis. We could use it as a customer perception data, at least it is from the customer not something we think the customer might be happy with, as “things always look different from the other party's point of view”.

I can see that you understand the requirement of this clause, ganglai, because you are monitoring the customer's perception by monitoring customer complaints. If this were written in the quality manual as the method for monitoring customer perception, a passive auditor may be satisfied with that. Every auditor, however, will likely note that this sort of process could be improved.

With interest
--Erik

Our manual does not say we are monitoring customer complaints as a part of monitoring customer perception. Manual says we use surveys and we do not have surveys. So that was the minor we got from last audit. Now I am thinking at how can I “work out” the next audit. Someone has approached the sales department regarding this matter after last audit but no positive answer. So I am thinking either to change the manual or to get the sale people to do the survey, or review meeting or any other way to get the voice from customs.

Please continue to comment

 

[Martijn]

Hi Martijn and Welcome to the Cove,.

thank you, feel at home allready

If the customer is happy with 100% ITOF, great. And it is perfectly acceptable to use this as a measurment tool for customer satifaction.

I agree when you know the customer only wants 100% ITOF and that makes him happy. I was thinking about situations in which ITOF is the only customer requirement. I think a powerplant might be a good example, there's no quality to power, it's there or not, and it must be there all the time, so as long as the powerplants ITOF=100% their customers are happy.

But still you'd be mesauring how well you meet customer requirements, and not the customers satisfaction. The customer might still be unhappy about price etc. as stated on previous page. ITOF alone can never be enough if you ask me.

Another idea i got from a course i did was customers payment behavior, the quicker they pay, the happier they are. I know it's a bit dodgy, but still, it's an idea.

And to finish of my ramblings, i believe complaining customers are complaining because they're happy with you overall and want you to improve on a specific issue. Complaining is no sign of low customer satisfaction. Complaining customers stay when they're helped. Unhappy customers dont complain and will buy products somewhere else.

 

[CarolX]

And to finish of my ramblings, i believe complaining customers are complaining because they're happy with you overall and want you to improve on a specific issue. Complaining is no sign of low customer satisfaction. Complaining customers stay when they're helped. Unhappy customers dont complain and will buy products somewhere else.

Martijn,

You are so very correct. And I never looked at customer complaints in this way.

Thanks...just gave me a few new ideas.

 

[Bill Ryan - 2007]

And to finish of my ramblings, i believe complaining customers are complaining because they're happy with you overall and want you to improve on a specific issue. Complaining is no sign of low customer satisfaction. Complaining customers stay when they're helped. Unhappy customers dont complain and will buy products somewhere else.

Just as an example - we had a major customer complaint due to a cracked casting we shipped. During a "top level" Wall-Wall audit with our customer shortly after the PR&R, it was brought up that we were not meeting their expectations regarding timeliness of response and how we addressed the sorting activities at their plant. After the "hammering", the remark was made that this was "not necessarily a bad thing at this time as they had most of their suppliers very well versed in how to handle a customer complaint". The closing remarks mentioned that we were one of their top suppliers and they were, overall, very pleased with us.

 

[apestate]

Martijn, that is an interesting idea you brought forth in your last. The quicker they pay, the happier they are. We are in need of good ways to measure customer's perception of how we are meeting requirements, and how to monitor that. There are ways.

This is an abstract and less intuitive clause of ISO 9001:2000, and I'm glad that ganglai has brought it up and that The Cove has taken it up in discussion. 8.2.1 is a short clause, but highly loaded. Let me see if I've got it straight, based on what I knew and what I've learned in this thread.

8.2.1 Customer Satisfaction

... the requirement from ISO 9001 “As one of the measurements of the performance of the quality management system, the organization shall monitor information relating to customer perception as to whether the organization has met customer requirements. The methods for obtaining and using this information shall be determined.”

Creating customer satisfaction is the primary aim of this business standard. Therefore, this short clause is highly loaded and highly important. It bears more effort to understand and excel at.

Based on the entire standard and body of knowledge at whole, and in a very basic breakdown, this clause stipulates that we systematically monitor the customer's satisfaction with our product, service, and business. This information is to be used as a measure of business performance.

The customer comes into the relationship with needs and expectations of us. Some of the needs and expectations are stated, some are implied. Specifications, due dates, procedures to be followed, and professionalism are examples of needs and expectations. These things contribute to the customer's satisfaction with you.

When we monitor the customer's perception of how we have met their needs and expectations, we have information regarding that customer's satisfaction with us. Putting this information to good use will increase the customer's satisfaction, and we will see that our business has improved systematically over our previous efforts.

Let us monitor any meaningful data from which a judgement can be made about customer satisfaction.

Take the case of customer complaints and compliments. Outright information. In 7.2.3 (c) we have captured that information, in 8.2.1 we look at the number of compliments/complaints, the upward or downward trend, maybe the distribution of complaints by customer, customer's location, quality expected or needed but not recieved.

In 8.2.1 we can look at sales statistics. What are the number of repeat customers? They are expressing their satisfaction with a dollar vote. They are showing you that their expectations and needs are better satisfied by buying from you than from your competition.

Are customers getting your name out by word-of-mouth? If they are, it is most likely you are meeting their expectations and needs.

One time I was wondering about the experience of using a certain software package, so I googled "[this sofware] sucks". I got lots of information about customer perception of that product.

Finally, the best way there is. Ask and listen. But people hate surveys. Ask in a personal way. Your sales people will be most highly qualified for this because they know how to put the customer first. Focus groups with customers, sit down meetings, informal tours and chatter with customer agents, all of these can load you with information.

Listen systematically. It is a good idea to make a form like the one in February '06 Quality Progress and give these forms to every person in your company who has a direct interaction with customers. The form is from 7.2.3 (c). It captures informal information on customer satisfaction, and it captures expectations and needs not known.

All of this is an input into management review. Management review does something about the trend and customer satisfaction is increased.

Determining the methods for using this information is a cinch. Just get the information and it'll turn into understanding and ideas and familiarity and you name it.

I hope I've given a few ideas for monitoring customer satisfaction, but more hopefully you have more ideas on how to do this with your customers. If you do, feel free to share with us.

ganglai, looking back, I think you should ask your salespeople how to obtain and use this information. These are the experts on the subject. While we struggle for ideas on how to capture customer perception of us, they know brand loyalty and market share and individual opinions better than us, so mired in the finer points of ANSI/ISO/ASQ ISO TC 176 9001:2000 7.2.3 (c) & 8.2.1 shall whether and determined.

I also think of my own experiences with businesses. Like Carol mentions, we have to go beyond the stated requirements in order to engender customer satisfaction. My stated requirements for a hand tool are that I get it in the mail and it works, but the company applying 8.2.1 might hear my grumbling about the way it fits the hand and use this information to make a better hand tool. Etc.