Is ISO 9001 Cresting? Is a rebellion in the works?

Has ISO 9001 reached a level where a rebellion is in the works?

  • ISO 9001 is still on the rise.

    Votes: 11 25.0%
  • ISO 9001 is near its peak.

    Votes: 15 34.1%
  • The rebellion has started or is starting.

    Votes: 14 31.8%
  • We have already rebelled. We will not register.

    Votes: 4 9.1%

  • Total voters
    44

Marc

Fully vaccinated are you?
Staff member
Admin
#1
Yesterday I received my third call since January from a major multi-national asking me to develop a supplier evaluation and development program which does not so much as mention ISO 9001 and is applicable to smaller suppliers. Nice for me because I can draw on my previous work, but I'm beginning to wonder.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
light at the end of the ISO tunnel

Marc,

I would say emphatically that the rebellion has started. This ISO thing was just like any other fad, it's time has come and gone. A few more years and it will be replaced by some new re-hashed idea with a new name tag.

JMHO,
CarolX
 
#3
Two different issues?

Marc, I think these are two different issues. First, I think ISO 9001 is at, or close to it's peak. Those who WANT to register probably already are, those who HAVE to register probably are as well. I see this as a mature market (from a consultant's viewpoint). The heyday of having more clients than we can deal with are beyond us now. This can be evidenced by the drop in consultant fees.

The issue of the rebellion will never die! I see an expanded call for self-declaration (thanks in part to ISO 14001). Because the competitive advantage of registration is pretty much gone, I think more companies will say things amounting to they do not see the need to pay a registrar to pay them for something they already know!

If a company has the self-discipline to maintain a QMS without registration, then self-certification/declaration might be useful (Carl’s posts reflect his organization might be a good example). Most companies I work with lack such self-discipline and I see a gradual decay back to 50’s manufacturing.
 
S

Scott

#4
Top Managment Reviews did NOT help!

My belief is that the 2000 standard seems to have had a negative shock on our management. They were able to live with the 94 standard of do what you say, say what you do, blah, blah, blah. Now, when we give them the new standard they see only the Mangement Review section. No longer is it the troops doing all the work for certification by following processes now they have to be over-involved.

I work for a large defense contractor and the company, (high level), has terminated it's contract with the registrar and is banking on getting 2000 cert'd through some government agency no one has heard of.

In the last 2 months we have totally fallen off the dime where we were certified and everyone was actually working together and following processes. Now all CAB's have been cancelled and nothing is happening. The offical word is we are waiting further word from corporate...ha

I see this boat going down for the last time very soon. We might get 2000 certified in the future but it will be a paperwork drill only.

Again, my thinking on this is Top Management, (and the next 3 layers), are too busy keeping companies going these days and they don't have the time or energy to do that much more. Let's leave it where the management is involved at arms length and make the department heads responsible for implementation.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for the forum as it is a crappy Friday.:bonk:
 
H

HFowler

#5
Good Question

I'm not as concerned with whether the interest in ISO is declining as I am with the loss of interest in quality. It is hard to find anyone or any organization that is really quality focused.

I hope that the next quality initiative that comes along is something that management supports.

Hank Fowler
 
A

Atul Khandekar

#6
Certificate still important

In my part of the world I don't see any rebellion yet. ISO is still important (not necessarily Quality) purely from business point of view. "self-discipline to maintain a QMS without registration" is almost unthinkable !
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#7
rebels!

Here's one theory I have: Maybe management is rebelling against ISO 9000 in part because some of the things it requires are not viewed as bringing added value to the company, but rather additional work that is considered unnecessary for that particular organization. As just one small example I've heard, management has no problems doing management reviews at intervals they feel are appropriate, but they resent having the standard insist that some type of records be maintained as evidence of the review. "Unnecessary work" in their view, yet it is mandated by ISO. Do it or else....

Another popular complaint seems to be registrars interpreting requirements differently than management and management being threatened with loss of certification if they don't give-in. Do it or else... Most top managers don't take kindly to this kind of thing, especially when business is low and moods are correspondingly low.

It seems to me that one of the "in things" to do right now is to make operations as "lean" as possible, especially in the current marketplace. "Experts" and "regular guys" both think that makes sense. However, there times when the standard handcuffs management and gets in the way of the "leaning" process as they want to do it. When business is down (as it is for my company and a few others with whom I am familiar) it is taken as an especially bitter pill when the standard gets in the way of what they feel are worthwhile changes. It seems the two ideas (ISO and "lean") conflict in some cases.

This is not to suggest that ISO doesn't have parts that these same managers totally agree with. They're not all "anti-quality". They just value more flexibility than ISO offers in some cases.

Just one opinion. I have lots more but I am probably in enough trouble for one week already.

Mike S.:bonk:
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Just did a quick check of registrations ot the 2000 standard and found the following:
USA Registration 1044 of 35018
World Registration 3166 of 408631
based on those registered in Dec 00
Is/was ISO a fad???
I think that many are self declaring and will opt out of registration and there will still be a market for registration but less registrars. I even believe that there will be a market for nonregistration 3rd party audits. Anyone want to go in business?? :D
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Re: Certificate still important

Atul Khandekar said:

"self-discipline to maintain a QMS without registration" is almost unthinkable !
_________________________

This makes me wonder. How in the world did quality products ever get made, and QMS systems exist, before the advent of "registered" quality management systems?

I respectfully submit that it is not unthinkable.

JMHO

Mike S.
 
M

Michael T

#10
Oh yeahhh...

Hi all,

In preparation for the impending doom... ooops, :vfunny: I mean transition to ISO 9000:2000, we have been taking a very hard look at just how this whole mess adds value to our organization. Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say that we are becoming hard pressed to find the answer to that question. We've been "process oriented" for over 3 years now, so all I'm doing in preparation for the upgrade audit is basically making sure that what ISO requires, we have documented somewhere. There have been several instances where I've given things to my boss for review prior to implementation and have him ask, "Why are we doing this?" My answer, "For ISO."

I have this sneaking suspicion that if it weren't more of a hassle trying to explain it to our customers, we just might "self declare" or just chuck it all together.

Cheers!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
G Compliance with ISO 9001-2015 for ISO 17025 Accredited Labs? ISO 17025 related Discussions 3
L Change Log in (controlled) Forms? (ISO 9001:2015) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 6
K ISO 9001 Clause 8.3 & 8.6 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
S Transition training for Internal Auditor from ISO 9001: 2008 to the ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
H R&D Lab ISO 9001 certification ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
J ISO 9001:2015 Clause 8.5.1 Control of Production and service provision - Help with Work Instruction Access ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
M Does the scope of ISO 9001:2015 applies to tenders, pricing and sales department of a medical devices distributor? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
D Can an ISO 9001 Certificate have Remote Locations? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
D ISO 9001 - 8.4.1 Evaluate All Suppliers? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 66
Sidney Vianna ISO 9001 News ISO 9001 Quality Check - spinning facts in LinkedIn ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
A ISO 9001 Internal Audits - No production right now due to furloughs Internal Auditing 5
T Do we need an SOP for ISO 9001? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
K ISO 9001 Auditing in a Healthcare setting Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 15
C ISO 9001:2015 8.3.2. h) Design and Development Planning - What is required? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
B Employee Handbook in ISO 9001:2015 Section 7 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
Q ISO 9001/IATF 16949 Audit Finding Question - Document Retention IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
Q Audit report template ISO 9001/14001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
Q Process matrix examples of ISO 9001 & 14001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
chris1price Archiving of paper records - ISO 9001 7.5.3.1b Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 4
D Common practices in ISO 9001 deployment ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
Q ISO 9001-2015 Internal audit finding Internal Auditing 14
P Audit check for IT company (ISO 9001) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
Q Do these certificates of calibration meet ISO 9001 requirements for traceability to NIST? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 23
C Requirement to link Quality Manual to ISO 9001 clause numbers? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 13
W First time being audited (ISO 9001), asking for advice ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
Q ISO 9001 - Reseller Exclusions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
R AS9100D internal audit checklist or ISO 9001 2015 to AS9100 D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
N ISO 9001 - Training business with fewer than 5 employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
J Opportunity in ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 27
D Reports under change management | ISO 13485:2016 & ISO 9001:2015 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
K Integrating ISO 9001:2015 with ISO 17025:2017 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
R Remote Audits for ISO 9001 (or any other standard) General Auditing Discussions 31
T Relationship between ISO 9001 and ISO – IEC BS EN 870079- 34 2020 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
S Sequence of ISO 9001:2015 Implementation Steps ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
qualprod Business Continuity Planning in ISO 9001? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
Brizilla Employee Data Privacy Policy - ISO 9001:2015 requirement(s)? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
S ISO 9001:2015 Internal Auditing Internal Auditing 8
Q Process: Knowledge Section 7.1.6 of ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
P ISO 9001 certification with zero customers? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
A What must be recorded? (ISO 9001:2015, subclause 10.2) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
B Updated IATF 16949 - Will IATF 16949 get revised when ISO 9001:202X is released? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S ISO 9001:2015 vs 21 CFR Part 211 matrix Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 0
S ISO 9001 implementation in a Gold exporting business ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
M Does the ISO 9001:2015 standard require a disaster recovery plan or emergency response plan ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
A Tips and Tricks to understand ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
M ISO 9001 Major Nonconformance Internal Audit Schedule/COVID-19 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
B ISO 9001 - "Remote Audit Fee" Registrars and Notified Bodies 13
John C. Abnet ISO 9001 4.4.1 "...shall determine the processes needed..." ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 72
S ISO 9001 Clause 8.2.3 - Review of the requirements for products and services in a Cafe ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
D ISO 9001 certificate issued by QMS International for 10 years - legit? Registrars and Notified Bodies 17

Similar threads

Top Bottom