Is ISO 9001 Cresting? Is a rebellion in the works?

[CarolX]

CarolX said: “ We carry almost no stock that isn't turned around in a week. But because this was in the standard, we had to come up with a procedure and forms.”

Where does it say in the standard that you have to carry out periodic checks on stock? I know that you need to have processes in place to ensure that stock hasn’t deteriorated but there is no need to have a procedure if you have records that show the stock is all used up before it has a chance to go off … and steel? I think your auditor has pushed the envelope a bit far.

No argument from me on this...but they weren't going to budge....and it was one of those "let them have that one". Right or wrong..it doesn't matter.


Roxanne,

My whole resistance to the ISO registration was...what would it do for us..where was the return on investment? And there hasn't been. Have we improved, of course. Would we have without the ISO badge, of course. We already had a system that was well developed and fully functional...made life real easy making the jump...did it in less than 6 months...but did we benefit from it....no.

CarolX

 

[tschones]

For those organizations that have a significant part of their customer base requiring ISO certification, you have no choice but to get certified. But for those who don't, deciding on whether an organization should pursue ISO registration should be based only on the top line, not the bottom line. Here's why. ISO registration impacts your revenues by allowing you to sell product to customer's requiring their suppliers to be ISO certified. If you don't have the registration, your market potential may be narrowed.

Regarding determing ISO's value to the bottom line, if you have few if any customers requiring ISO certification, why would you do it when you could implement the system as documented through the ISO 9000:2000 standard at your own discretion and pace? Implementing ISO for organizations with little or no potential impact on their top line, is like someone hiring a personal trainer; why pay someone big bucks to help you get out of bed at 5:30 in the morning to get to the gym and tell you what to do and eat, when if you had the discipline yourself to get out of bed each morning and do a little bit of searching on the Internet or the purchase of a few books, could get the same results?

The other thing that I'm seeing that I think will eventually help lead to the demise of ISO is that organization's are still performing 2-party supplier audits on ISO certified suppliers. Weren't some organizations lead to believe in the early days of ISO, that one of the cost benefits would be that they wouldn't have to support supplier audits with customers if they got ISO certified? So how much weight does the ISO certification carry, if these types of activities are still going on?

Tom

 

[Rob Nix]

Your last point, Tom, we experienced just last week. A customer that requires ISO certification also wants to perform a full day audit themselves. I argued with them that since they subscribe to ISO certification, can they not accept the results (our certification) and save everyone time and money?

Then I got to the root cause... They (2 men) are planning the audit for November 13. We are in Michigan. They are going north to perform this audit. Deer season begins November 15. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

[Craig H.]

Tom:

In theory I agree with your point about supplier audits for ISO certified companies, but in practice there is still no equal to a sit-down, "face to face" meeting. Call it an audit, or just a visit, there is value to be found there, IMO.

Craig

 

[tschones]

Tom:

In theory I agree with your point about supplier audits for ISO certified companies, but in practice there is still no equal to a sit-down, "face to face" meeting. Call it an audit, or just a visit, there is value to be found there, IMO.

Craig

Craig-

You and I are in agreement here, that was my underlying point "so if people still find value in such visits or activities, how does ISO help my bottom line (outside of its impact on the top line)?"

Tom

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: Is ISO 9001 Cresting?

Craig-

You and I are in agreement here, that was my underlying point "so if people still find value in such visits or activities, how does ISO help my bottom line (outside of its impact on the top line)?"

Tom

IMO, an audit by a customer goes much quicker and smoother when target is registered or compliant to a Standard. It is relatively easy to confirm basic QMS and concentrate on whether or not the capability and capacity of the target to manufacture product for the customer is sufficient.

It is always so much nicer to conduct a supplier audit when production personnel know answers to questions like:
Who deals with the product before you? after you?

Organizations which comply with a Standard usually have that part covered. I always perform Supplier visit for ANY custom-made product, regardless of registration status of target.

 

[Marc]

ISO 9001 Crested Long Ago as far as Value Goes

Craig-

You and I are in agreement here, that was my underlying point "so if people still find value in such visits or activities, how does ISO help my bottom line (outside of its impact on the top line)?"

Precisely...

 

[assuranceman]

Re: Is ISO 9001 Cresting?

In the aircraft industry ISO or AS9100 registration will not end customer visits. Safety concerns and regulations will still require Product Audits and there will be a sample of companies audited to check on the registrars. In addition the FAA will still be performing their audits.

 

[Gus J]

Iso9001

ISO9001 is just another tool that will help you improve your way of business. The end result will depend on your company's commitment and buying into it. Remember garbage in garbage out.

With my experience in ISO for the last 10 years have been positive. It has been a way of improving our way of business.

It was used at my previous employer with 25 sister companies, 750 million in annual sales. With positive financial results.

With my current employer a 41 million dollars in annual sales, the implementation is positive. Not only financial but there is a practical way of following and implementing processes.

If you want just an ISO9001 certificate then save your money and resources. But if your company is honestly working to improve, then utilize the ISO9001 standard, TQM, or any other tool to improve. If you really believe in it, your company will see results.

 

[Marc]

Shall I Start a new thread with a new poll?

Is there anyone who hasn't voted? Shall we start a new poll to see what people are thinking today (in case some folks have changed their mind...)?

Interesting, considering these threads:

http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4229
and
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8034